The Big Question ?

[RICHARD WILLS]

Can we say Dolly ?  

Is even "Attractive lady " acceptable ?

[Eric Robson]

5 hours ago, RICHARD WILLS said:

Im suprised it can fly with no eyes , the poor thing . 

It's asleep Richard the eyes are closed. 

[Eric Robson]

5 hours ago, RICHARD WILLS said:

Im suprised it can fly with no eyes , the poor thing . 

It's asleep Richard the eyes are closed. 

Two of my Twins are quite easy to fly, my foamboard and depron models are light and have had many flights , I hand launch them holding them through the finger holes at the c of g. They just fly out of my hand, no need for a heave the Me110 and Whirlwind are just under 60" span and fly on 3s 3000 the Mosquito is 71" span and I need an assistant to launch it. 

[Tom Gaskin 1]

What would be rather pleasant is to have the ability to model a Tempest ii with the radial engine.

 

Tom

[Ron Gray]

Surprising how light a Depron built tail is on a model, the Hanky Plankies need the servos mounted in the tail to add weight! (C of G is where the LE meets the tips)

 

[Ron Gray]

15 hours ago, RICHARD WILLS said:

What are we thinking about the subjects , ie Tempest /Fw190a  ?

Round 1 Tempest and FW

[Paul Johnson 4]

15 hours ago, RICHARD WILLS said:

Hi Martin , you dont need to shell out to join the gang . Im sure we are all happy to have you on board with your wildcat . I might have a super duper 109 for you at some point in the future anyway . Ive got Paul Johnson wound up on it .  

Your right about the Typhoon for sure . When we first introduced the 190A and Tempest , we had to lengthen the noses as people were putting plain bearing 40s in them .

But with 4s packs slid down the front and lighter radio we can do quite well on both of these short nosed prototypes . 

You are correct in general though . When people insist on a typhoon rather than Tempest or Sea Fury , I say Good luck mate !

Was it Bill Manley  at Mainley models ? I met him somewhere at a show (maybe next door to him ) Very nice chap . 

Wound up?

More like I'm in 'Training' at the moment...

But on the back burner just to tease...🤫

So till  a lot lot later, choo choo for now..🚂

 

 

[leccyflyer]

Make it an Emil and you've got me. 🙂

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

To save me reading through the posts, what motor/esc will be needed and what mah lipos, also what's the likely flight times on these set ups ?

 

[RICHARD WILLS]

Good questions John . 

I can help do the sums , but basically we should aim for the props to be turning at around 11000revs with no load . That means we can use 6" pitch props which are readily available .  For example i have lots of 3300 4s packs  , so with a 700kv motor that you can buy for £20 I would expect 14.8v x 700= 10500 roughly .  So I could either go up to a 12x7  or use an 800kv motor . At say 4.5lb and realistic performance i would expect 7mins on the above set up . 

3s packs can also be used as people have a lot of 2200 packs . Two of those will make a 4400mah battery and you simply choose a higher KV motor like a 1100 or 1200. 

Also cheap as in the "drone zone" . Flight time similar . 

Not loads of current used so minimum of 40A , 60 is ample . 

I recorded an FMS P51 with coarse pitch 4 blade prop drawing 63amps  , but that weighed over 5lb and went from take off to a 70 degree climb to the clouds . 

Flat out in level flight it topped out at 32 amps .

Most people go over board on ESCs . A good precaution But experience has taught me that with normal warbirds   manoeuvres, you dont draw much . 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Thanks Richard. 👍

[Chris Walby]

Just to add something that might be helpful as I have been using HobbyRC GNB lipos with good results. Plus there seems to be a bonus with using them, firstly they seem to work well in high load applications (less useful for us, but there is a win there - more later!) and secondly I normally go a capacity up for no weight gain.

 

IIRC a 4S3300 lipo can be replaced with a GNB 4S4000 pack and its lighter with an useful increase in capacity + they are not that much physically much bigger.

 

There is a school of thought that if the lipo voltage doe not sag for the same power then the current is less and on the basis that the battery capacity is in mAh  the less amps we pull the longer the battery will take to discharge. The old P=VI equations which I have come across with vey high power set up, the more current drawn the more the voltage sags so there is no more actual power produced...just a hotter more knackered lipo!

[martin collins 1]

Dug out the Mainly Models Hellcat, this is what the kit contains, is this the sort of thing you have in mind Richard?

[martin collins 1]

Finishing off a petrol engined YT Aichi Val project, should be in the air by the end of the week which leaves me looking for the next project. Now i have the foam Hellcat box open it would be rude not to start it! I feel one of my 7 day challenges coming on 🤪 . Not done one of my challenges for a couple of years, 7 days from start to flying it, will do a build blog and will have it to take to the next RAFMAA fly in on the 8th.

[RICHARD WILLS]

13 hours ago, martin collins 1 said:

Dug out the Mainly Models Hellcat, this is what the kit contains, is this the sort of thing you have in mind Richard?

I think that much foam and that little wood might put people off. So probably more of a half way house between my original kits with foam veneered wings and decks , but probably changing the foam to dense blue as your hell cat , but omitting the veneer which of course incurs a labour cost and material cost . 

[RICHARD WILLS]

This was the contents of the early warbirds Spitfire . To produce a kit like this today , it would have to retail at £140 . But by losing the veneer and a few other bits It could be 

reduced by quite a bit . I think the fact that most people will have a good proportion of the radio and propulsion system , means that we should go too basic . 

That particular kit , semi scale as it was , became popular because it could be made to look very good and yet was quick to build and very tough . 

[kevin b]

Richard.

I think that the £140.00 price for the Spitfire kit would  be acceptable these days (ok, maybe not by the over 80's).

Just look at what you used to charge for it and then add on inflation. I think you will be surprised.

To reduce the content in order to lower the price I think would be counter productive, as you would potentially make fewer sales.

Another option might be to replace the veneer with an alternative material that will carry out the same job but have a cheaper cost price.

[Ron Gray]

I still favour more foam, less balsa!

[RICHARD WILLS]

Two different stances there . (which I did expect , to be honest )  I guess we could do with some more comments and then push the balsa - foam slider to the correct position?

 

[Flying Squirrel]

Personally, I feel if it was mainly foam it would need to be VERY cheap to tempt anybody away from either end of the scale, ie those that have a preference for foam ARTFs as well as those that prefer a more traditional build, some 'middle ground required IMO.

 

Foam wings and empennage, balsa/built up fuz and preformed cowl etc would suit me.

[GrumpyGnome]

Foam wings - tailplane, elevators, rudder, fin; no veneer

Built up fuselage with curvy bits in foam; no veneer

Mounded cowl and canopy

[andrew exton]

4 hours ago, RICHARD WILLS said:

This was the contents of the early warbirds Spitfire . To produce a kit like this today , it would have to retail at £140 . But by losing the veneer and a few other bits It could be 

reduced by quite a bit . I think the fact that most people will have a good proportion of the radio and propulsion system , means that we should go too basic . 

That particular kit , semi scale as it was , became popular because it could be made to look very good and yet was quick to build and very tough . 

 

 

They flew great & were tough i had the Spitfire ,P47 ,P40 never really managed to kill any of them the P40 was my fav & clocked many hrs eventually

sold to the guy who did Green Air Designs ?? 

did try a few of their kits but never really liked the all depron foam job , probably explains why i still struggle with it  ,like the look of martins blue foam hellcat , all ways fancied one of jack devines kits years ago  all foam covered in balsa if i remember rightly , shipping & his reputation killed that though .

if you produce any i would as personal preference more foam (not to much depron thoughj ) to keep cost down especially as there are quite a few was to finish them .

 

andy

 

andy

[Graham Davies 3]

34 minutes ago, Flying Squirrel said:

Personally, I feel if it was mainly foam it would need to be VERY cheap to tempt anybody away from either end of the scale, ie those that have a preference for foam ARTFs as well as those that prefer a more traditional build, some 'middle ground required IMO.

 

Foam wings and empennage, balsa/built up fuz and preformed cowl etc would suit me.

Surely, if it builds into a great looking, tough, reliable and great flying model, does it matter?

 

Those that really love to get their teeth into a big build project are probably not going to be interested anyway. If we get to the correct end result, a lightweight and realistic funfighter upon which we can lavish a bit of scale cleverness, then our work is done here!

[martin collins 1]

For me speed and ease of build combined with a keen price will help sell them to more people. I'm not keen on ARTF foamies, i prefer to put something together myself. Richards kits are great, if they could be simplified a bit futher with foam in more areas to speed up the build/reduce the production costs/weight that would be great. I have stalled on the Lavochkin build part way through the retract stage, i will get back to it but retract installation/repair is my bug bear so hand launch or fixed gear is a plus and speeds up getting it in the air. 

[leccyflyer]

Ease of build, providing the opportunity to practice some of the finishing techniques being talked about to produce a good looking and well sorted flyer in a relatively short time. Good battery access and a commonality of power train installation would be up near the top of the wish list.