The Big Question ?

[dan h]

Thanks for the reply Richard,

 

I have only built 6 traditional balsa kits in the past which were covered with iron on film and 1 that was eze kote and cloth. I started in the hobby only 10yrs ago but started building about 4yrs ago,  I mostly fly balsa models now, 

 

This will be my first warbird build so maybe I will go down the brown paper and pva Road just to try something different, you said that brown paper and pva is very easy to apply, I was very surprised at how easy glass cloth and eze kote is to get very nice results.

 

can you use rattle cans on the paper and pva? 

 

[RICHARD WILLS]

Yes Dan , you can use the same paint on both epoxy or brown paper finish . I'm not saying one method is better then the other . If you have already had a go with eze kote and like it , then why dont we wait to see fi one of the more experienced guys can offer advice on the foam veneer wings ?

I will go through the brown papering and prep for painting this week , so you will be able to perhaps try both methods . 

Just to confuse matters , Ron and a few others have had good results with laminating film . Its very cheap and irons on like solarfilm or profilm . It doesnt stretch as much but that only really effects wing tips . My only concern would be , does it remain stable on hot days ?

I will avoid using an airbrush on this model and pretty much stick to cheap , quick and easy . As you are quite rightly asking the right questions , it is these barriers that we must break down to get more ARTF flyers over into building . 

[Ron Gray]

In answer to your question Richard, yes, it remains stable on hot days, in fact it’s a lot better than most covering films!

 

Despite really liking lam film, I will be covering mine in brown paper or if Richard doesn’t pull hi digit out, left over Christmas wrapping paper. But then as I only get one present (my wife and family say I’ve already got enough things) it could be just the tail gets covered that way.

[Graham Davies 3]

47 minutes ago, Ron Gray said:

In answer to your question Richard, yes, it remains stable on hot days, in fact it’s a lot better than most covering films!

 

Despite really liking lam film, I will be covering mine in brown paper or if Richard doesn’t pull hi digit out, left over Christmas wrapping paper. But then as I only get one present (my wife and family say I’ve already got enough things) it could be just the tail gets covered that way.

BTW, avoid the current batch of brown paper from Tesco; it's so soft I've started replacing my usual Andrex with it...

[Graham Bowers]

1 hour ago, Graham Davies 3 said:

BTW, avoid the current batch of brown paper from Tesco; it's so soft I've started replacing my usual Andrex with it...

Izal for model covering, perhaps ?-)

[gillyg1]

I use the brown paper that the automotive sprayers use for masking up, comes in large rolls, so pop along to your local spray shop see if you can scrounge some , end of a roll maybe ? Or even offer to pay for some 😉

I'm lucky as my son works in that industry so have a ready supply .

[Eric Robson]

1 hour ago, gillyg1 said:

I use the brown paper that the automotive sprayers use for masking up, comes in large rolls, so pop along to your local spray shop see if you can scrounge some , end of a roll maybe ? Or even offer to pay for some 😉

I'm lucky as my son works in that industry so have a ready supply .

The firms that sold the rolls of masking paper in my locality don't stock it anymore, Toolstation etc sell rolls of thin plastic for automotive use , strange when shops are stopping plastic bags in favour of paper. Best paper I had last year was Christmas wrapping paper brown with gold deer on from Tesco 

[Eric Robson]

2 hours ago, Graham Bowers said:

Izal for model covering, perhaps ?-)

Both Izal and Andrex go brown with use

[Graham Davies 3]

4 hours ago, Graham Bowers said:

Izal for model covering, perhaps ?-)

Could use the perforations for rivet lines....

[dan h]

Richard,

 

Good to know that spray paint can be used over the paper and pva.

ref the lam film, think il leave that for now as I want to get more into the painting side of models, I do own an airbrush itching to get out its box !

 

 as I have had good results with the eze kote and cloth and thoroughly enjoyed the process of it, I am going to give the paper and pva a go just because i have never tried it, think I will start with the wing that way if it goes wrong ( probably won't ) I have the eze kote to use on the fuz, I do have access to some automotive brown paper as a friend works in the industry, 

 

I used to be someone who always flew foam planes and artfs. Then one day I was getting bored of flying the same models as everyone else with the same livery etc so I thought right I want something different so that's when I started building and have never regretted it. ( really enjoy it )

The only thing I found is, my god you can end up with a lot of models !

 

 

I shall look forward to seeing you do the covering and painting on this one, I will probably have more questions for you aswell.😁

 

 

 

 

[martin collins 1]

Question on the brown paper covering Richard, do you cover the whole airframe with it including the plastic parts, if so i assume the pva sticks to it ok but what do you do about the roundy bits like the cowl? Or do you just paper up to the plastic then fill and feather sand the join? Tell all or i will bribe Sweep to give me the answer 😜.

[Peter Miller]

Just in passing:

I remember back in the 50s a hard up member of our RAF club covered his combat model  in strips of perforated tissue paper off a roll. Each small square had the words "Government Property" stamped on it in green ink.

 

Anyone remember that material?

[RICHARD WILLS]

Martin , regarding your question about the plastic parts , no I dont cover them , just primer and done . 

I will just show you these underside shots then on to covering . 

Strips of balsa flush with fuselage sides to allow mild rounding on the corner (real 190 is quite sharp too) .

Cross grain 3/32 sheet then long grain at the tail . 

[RICHARD WILLS]

Right then the Brown Paper Covering (BPC ) and how to avoid it becoming BPDD  (Brown Paper Disaster Darling ) As Craig Revell Hall would say . 

Paper is a bit of lottery . Cheap is often better than expensive . Pound shop is generally not good though . Local corner shop is often good , Ikea might be very good as they have it in the packing area as you walk out the door . You help yourself . The problem is , that sometimes the providers get all "clever Dicky "  and use reconstituted paper . That was basically mush held together , which then comes apart when wet .  Generally Ive been more lucky on choice than unlucky . 

WH smiths is rubbish . So buy a few rolls from different places and once you have a good one (more likely than not ) nip back and buy five more .

Secondly , use decent PVA . I stick to EVO stick (any variant )  as long as white PVA . Gorilla glue PVa is great too .  

You should put only 10% water in . 

The next thing I do is put a sheet of cardboard on my bench and keep it clean . 

Then I cut the brown paper into pieces to make suit of clothes for the model . Do all this and mark them before any glue comes out . 

I would start on the wing underside , so paste the matt side of that relevant piece of Brown Paper . Allow to grow for 1 minute then smooth on with your hands . 

Then iron with a covering iron . You will be able to go round compound curves but sometimes a couple of little snips will easy the process . 

(which coincidentally is exactly what my wife said when she had explained we weren't having any more children ) .

I cut the bottom wing skin flush , but the top skin oversize to roll over the edges . 

I did this today , it went very quickly and smoothly , which can be the case if you get the above correct . Very little skill involved . 

If you do get a bit that doesnt stick , cut an H shaped rugby goal with a sharp knife , open the two flaps and (careful here...😕)  

add glue and iron back down . 

 

[Don Fry]

I am a 25 gsm glass and epoxy applicator. I’m going to try that. Thank you for the tutorial. 

[Graham Bowers]

That'll be a *cold* covering iron Richard?

[RICHARD WILLS]

5 minutes ago, Graham Bowers said:

That'll be a *cold* covering iron Richard?

No . Hot Graham . it shrinks the paper as it dries and heats the glue which then sets quickly . 

Remember to keep the iron moving over the foam veneer bits in case the foam starts melting . You have to be pretty ham fisted to do that though . 

Over balsa you can linger as long as you like .  I would usually seal the paper with dope thinned with 30% (roughly ) thinners . Just a quick brush , dont soak it or the thinners might find its way into the foam . 

The paper is then ready for painting and becomes quite tough . 

[Graham Bowers]

Thanks for elaborating. Best assume I know nothing about this method, as that is the case 😉

Edited October 15, 2023 by Graham Bowers

[David Hazell 1]

When I did my spit, I made the mistake of foregoing the sealing coat. I then applied "ultimate" acrylic primer using my airbrush and it bobbled like those old cotton sheets used to. I had to sand and re-prime which was a lot of effort. On another model I did do the seal coat and it was soooo much better. For brown paper I use the car body masking stuff on a massive roll which cost me about 17 quid and will last me forever. 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by David Hazell 1

[Piers Bowlan]

7 hours ago, RICHARD WILLS said:

No . Hot Graham . it shrinks the paper as it dries and heats the glue which then sets quickly . 

Remember to keep the iron moving over the foam veneer bits in case the foam starts melting . You have to be pretty ham fisted to do that though . 

Over balsa you can linger as long as you like .  I would usually seal the paper with dope thinned with 30% (roughly ) thinners . Just a quick brush , dont soak it or the thinners might find its way into the foam . 

The paper is then ready for painting and becomes quite tough . 

I seal the paper with another coat of thinned PVA. Takes paint well. 😊

[gillyg1]

I always seal my brown paper using a mix of dope and banana oil- stops the shrinking effect of the dope, thinned with cellulose thinners.

Fine sand with  " wet n dry" used dry to get rid of the surface hairy effect, ready to prime.👍

[Paul Johnson 4]

22 hours ago, Peter Miller said:

Just in passing:

I remember back in the 50s a hard up member of our RAF club covered his combat model  in strips of perforated tissue paper off a roll. Each small square had the words "Government Property" stamped on it in green ink.

 

Anyone remember that material?

Yup.... you could shave with it...

[GrumpyGnome]

Worse than Izal?

[RICHARD WILLS]

5 hours ago, Paul Johnson 4 said:

Yup.... you could shave with it...

Snow Flakes . 

When I were a lad ......

[RICHARD WILLS]

So , just to prove that it happens to everyone , here is a blister in the brown paper covering . 

As I said before , you just cut an "H" shape , smear in some Pva underneath , then iron it back down . 

Might need a quick rub down after if the glue fizzes out a bit .