"How Do You Know What To Do?"

[David Davis 2]

I have been flying r/c for thirty-three years and trying to teach a bloke how to fly for the last two years. We have used a variety of models including a Junior 60 and a Radio Queen which the trainee has built, a Seagull Boomerang powered by a Thunder Tiger PRO 46 and a Cessna lookalike foamy called a "We Can Fly."

 

One day while he was using the slave transmitter, he lost control of the model. I took control and put the model into wind straight and level before handing control back to him.

 

After I'd done this he asked me, "How do you know what to do?"

 

I'm not sure that I can answer that question!

[GrumpyGnome]

How do you know how to drive a car, ride a bike, make a cup of coffee.... ?  Because you learnt. 

[leccyflyer]

Take it that this event took place some time ago? He's not still on the buddy box after two years learning to fly?

[David Davis 2]

18 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

Take it that this event took place some time ago? He's not still on the buddy box after two years learning to fly?

 

Unfortunately he still is on the buddy box! He is the most frustrating trainee I've ever had! He can fly about pretty accurately and his landings are fair if a little fast but he has a real mental block about taking off! I've suggested that he has a couple of flights with another instructor to gain some more experience but he's only done that once. He never goes to the flying field unless I'm there.☹️

[leccyflyer]

He likely won't progress any further until he gets off the buddy lead.

 

You might try what my instructor used to call "recovering from unusual attitudes", in which case he would deliberately put the model in one and then hand over control to me, to sort it out for myself. That would possibly be a good training point, given your trainee's question.

 

It sounds like he really needs to be weaned off the lead though.

[Ron Gray]

Whilst not exactly the same I have a ‘trainee’ who, after 4 years is still on the buddy lead. The circumstances are, however, not quite the same, or are they? I’m talking about my brother who used to be an excellent flier up until a stroke that he had 15 years ago. The good news is that he has improved a lot, especially this year and he can now fly fig 8s quite well, in fact yesterday they were really good. The problem still exists that when confronted with a split second decision his controls get reversed, so left is right, up is down (not good when on a landing approach, actually this has written off 2 of my planes!). But we persist, repeating the same manoeuvres again and again and gradually there is improvement. He can now land his Bixler but the trick there is to make him let it land itself without much stick input and that has been the main thing to try and get, not just him but most trainees, to do, stop over controlling.

 

I’ve wittered on a bit but what may assist in take offs is having a model that will, more or less, do it without much input, you know the thing, point it into the wind, give a bit of throttle and up it goes. 
 

Despite my brother’s improvements there is a large part of me that thinks he will never be able to fly without a buddy lead but does that really matter? He’s flying, I’m in effect a spotter (compulsory at our field) and I can still fly my own models during the day. Plus there is a major plus for me, it keeps me on my toes if I have to recover from his mistakes, in fact I would go as far as saying that it has made me a better pilot!

[Brian Cooper]

Knowing what to do only comes from experience. 

 

When teaching people to fly, it is very common to see a situation developing long before any "save it" intervention is needed. 

 

Personally, I like to see my pupils try to recover from their mistakes. . . I am the "safety net" which will step in only to prevent a crash. . . And then the model is flown back to a safe height and we do it all over again.  🤣

 

[J D 8]

 Aircraft like the Junior 60 are as you know of free flight origin and can sort themselves out given some hight/time.  Over controlling is often the issue when leaners are trying to recover from unusual attitude. As leccy says get the model to altitude and have him practice recovery, level wings is first step in most situations and perhaps close throttle. After some practice he should know the answer to the question

 

[kc]

I think that experienced pilots don't wait to see what the model is doing they are already planning the next stick movement.  i.e they are ahead of the plane mentally. Then it hardly ever catches them out.    But if it does do something unexpected it is noticed immediately and corrected.    That's the answer to the pupils question I think.

 

 

[David Davis 2]

It's important to allow time for an experienced beginner, if that's not a contradiction in terms, to recover from his own mistakes but I've lost a couple of trainers through allowing them too much time!

[Ron Gray]

Never allow them time when they are close to the ground, they won't learn that way as the model is usually in bits. 

[Sheepish]

I have had one or two beginners who get to the point where they could go solo and just loose confidence that they can fly without an instructor.

In the worst case the learner got to the stage that they would take no responsibility for flying the model at the point it was all going pear shaped and never went solo and stopped coming soon after.  
I guess if you can’t accept that you are going to break something at some point by doing something wrong it’s not the right hobby for you as we all know there are no guarantees.

If at first you don’t succeed don’t try sky diving…🙄

[Shaun Walsh]

2 hours ago, Sheepish said:

I have had one or two beginners who get to the point where they could go solo and just loose confidence that they can fly without an instructor.

In the worst case the learner got to the stage that they would take no responsibility for flying the model at the point it was all going pear shaped and never went solo and stopped coming soon after.  
I guess if you can’t accept that you are going to break something at some point by doing something wrong it’s not the right hobby for you as we all know there are no guarantees.

If at first you don’t succeed don’t try sky diving…🙄

........or bomb disposal, as it says on my son's t-shirt 

[David Davis 2]

16 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

Never allow them time when they are close to the ground, they won't learn that way as the model is usually in bits. 

 

In the first instance he was quite high when he made the first mistake, rather lower when he made the second and too low when I intervened!

[Ron Gray]

Ah!

[Peter Jenkins]

The most usual route to getting into trouble is that the student over rolls and the nose drops and they then pull back on the stick.  That only ever ends up tightening the turn and increasing the speed at which the green stuff is approaching.  I show that the real solution is to unbank or bank to level wings and then pull out of the dive.  It's a very simple description that I back up by holding the aircraft on the ground and showing what will happen.  Most students I've taught have managed to remember the mantra "wings level before pulling back on the stick".  Of course, a few will roll the wrong way and get even more panicky with the situation but that's where I would take over and then talk through recovery actions again and then encourage the student to over roll and then unroll and recover.  Hope that helps.

[Martin_K]

To be sure he understands, while on the ground with radio and aircraft ask him to explain pitch, roll, yaw, and stall speed. Can he talk you through basic manoeuvres, demonstrating moving the relevant control surfaces with the radio? If he cannot, he 'does not know what to do'.

 

Edited to add - only just saw Peter's post above!

Edited September 12, 2023 by Martin_K

[RedBaron]

Possibly send him to the local (full size) gliding club for some lessons, when he feels the consequence of his actions in the seat of his trousers the lessons may stick more firmly.

As R/C flying is harder than the real thing in terms of basic controls, if he cant cope with that (full size) then there is not much hope in the R/C world for progress..

[Alan Hilton]

I nag all my students to level the wings ,so they hopefully do that before anything else when in trouble .If the wings are level the model can be recovered safely 

[Don Fry]

Niveau de l’aile, as David would say.

[David Davis 2]

Ou "aile plat." It's my nickname in the club!

 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

I had one of those old pilots who had a few operations and finally got back to the model field, he wanted me to trim his electric plane so that he could quietly come back to the field on his own to crash it, so up it goes, trimmed out 50+ meters in the air against the wind I abandoned his , transmitter on the tabla and I walked away,,,

 

He did have a good 5 minutes flight, I landed it when he started shaking, but that smile on his face said it all.😇

 

Ps a couple of days ago.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Paul De Tourtoulon
ps

[RedBaron]

As mentioned above "level the wings" is a very good idea - but - it is necessary to be at flying speed first. If close to stall the use of aileron or rudder may produce undesired results.

This is a very good exercise to try in a full size glider - provided one is at a very very safe height.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

15 minutes ago, RedBaron said:

This is a very good exercise to try in a full size glider - provided one is at a very very safe height

And that dammed bit of wool on the canopy stopped trying to be a windscreen wiper.🤐

[Peter Jenkins]

Wasn't much use after cloud flying till it dried out!🤣🤣