The future of the hobby?

[Philip Lewis 3]

Also don't forget the many active forums, i.e. the internet again, such as this one offering much specialist advice and help, also the many spcialist threads on every topic that you can think, off such as RC Groups. None of which existed years ago.

 

It's ceratinly not all bad news, in relative terms much more affordable now especially the electronics.

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

15 hours ago, FiddleSticks said:

• New modellers won't have local advice and local parts to look at and learn about (eg servo couplings, trays, horns etc - many newbies wouldn't even know what to search for on ebay so it's a steep learning curve without local shops)

Clubs fulfil this role perfectly and there is still nearly 800 of them across the UK

[Futura57]

I'm just watching back the F1 race in Texas and saw a trailer advert for Peter Waterman's new TV program about model trains and celebrities. It got me thinking.

 

Some years back Mike (love him or hate him) Brewer was a regular at Epsom Downs with his Robbe Millennium heli. We chatted from time to time and he even gave me a few flying tips. He wasn't a bad chap, and very approachable. I was also present a couple of times when Vernon Kay turned up with his model, though he did crash it in the pits area and miraculously missed everyone. Anyway, a model flying tv series, fronted by Mike, and featuring the occasional celeb plus big names in the hobby would massively raise our profile. All genres of the hobby could be covered and made very exciting and appealing to youngsters. Anyone know his agents number? I guess Mike could be contacted on Facebook, but I don't use it. Maybe the BMFA could approach him.

 

I'm serious. Just a thought 🤔

 

[leccyflyer]

1 hour ago, Philip Lewis 3 said:

Also don't forget the many active forums, i.e. the internet again, such as this one offering much specialist advice and help, also the many spcialist threads on every topic that you can think, off such as RC Groups. None of which existed years ago.

 

It's ceratinly not all bad news, in relative terms much more affordable now especially the electronics.

FWIW RC Groups has been on the internet for 20 years and it's predecessor the Ezone for at least another half-a dozen years. The various RC-related newsgroups have been in existence for slightly longer.

[Robin Colbourne]

One thing that hasn't had a mention is the massive rise in single parent families.  A lot of model clubs insist on a parent being present when a child is at the club, so if the parent has other children, or works weekends, the opportunity for regular attendance is limited.  If that same child can go to a local park with an electric foamie without the parent's involvement, that is what they will do.

 

Maybe the answer to the lack of local model shops as an outlet for low volume, low cost consumables, is a return to a cabinet of those items in other forms of retail outlet which have sufficient space?  This is what Fred W. Megow did with his 'Green Cabinets' in the height of the Great Depression as at the start of his modelling empire as described here: 
AMA -Fred W. Megow :

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Robin Colbourne

[leccyflyer]

As I've mentioned before, I don;t believe that solo youngsters are the future of the hobby, in terms of numbers. AFAIK we don't have any youngsters in eother of my clubs, other than those who attend with a flying parent - we did have a few maybe 15 years ago, in my larger club in the NW of England, but the majority were accompanied by a dad who was also in the hobby. That goes for the even less numerous girls whi had taken part in the hobby.

 

Our main area of recruitment if we are serious about replacing those modellers that we have lost are the late middle aged chap who finds himself with some free time and especially going into retirement. These chaps may still have a wee spark of the age of air-mindedness that peaked in the 50's and 60's to be rekindled. The other sector for growth is the newish dad with youngsters, looking for a hobby that they can share, which gets them out of the house. Aeromodelling is a superb lad and dad hobby and I count the times that I spent with my boy at the flying field as amongst my most precious memories. However, for all the reasons mentioned, the yougster without strong parental support is increasingly difficult to bring into the hobby. Back in the day you could stick a model on the back of your bike and travel to the flying field - with fields much less common and often having been pushed out of town that is more difficult and by the time the youngster has discovered motor bikes or cars then they are likely to be lost to the hobby for a couple of decades, at least.

[Sheepish]

I agree with the change in demographic for new members.

For our club it’s always older returnees or retirees that enquire about us and join.

 

There has never been so much accessible information out there about all aspects of our hobby providing the internet is not an alien concept.  
Forums like this one are amazing for information and support even without visiting YT!
The availability of multiple brands of reliable radio gear at an affordable price has never been so good.

ARTF’s even at the new price levels we are seeing are still not bad value and balsa is still available along with a vast back catalogue of free old plans to build from that could never be exhausted in one lifetime.

There is a choice between electric power which has long stopped being a joke and also still IC of which I regularly fly both.

Fuel is available online with often free delivery and it’s all good quality and comes in all the flavours you could ever want.  
No more having to use what the local shop stocked even if you wanted something different.

 

Online retail is a fact of Iife for everything we now do especially with hobbies like ours that don’t have massive followings and purchase from anywhere in the world is possible.  
No more dealing with grumpy local model shop owners 😳 as I’m sure those older members on here will remember.

Retailers can now successfully specialise in a niche area with a worldwide online customer base to sell to something the local shop would struggle with.

 

The key to success now is the acceptance of technology and the internet as a necessity and this is a barrier to entry to our hobby if it is something that is alien and unwanted in your life.

Access to local flying sites has become more difficult due to pressure on land use but electric has made our task easier with quieter operation now more normal.  Increasing regulation has been a theme but seems to be manageable with help from the BMFA at present.

 

Is the hobby changing, yes it is, is it dying, not just yet I think.

 

 

 

 

 

[Peter Jenkins]

4 hours ago, Robin Colbourne said:

One thing that hasn't had a mention is the massive rise in single parent families.  A lot of model clubs insist on a parent being present when a child is at the club, so if the parent has other children, or works weekends, the opportunity for regular attendance is limited.  If that same child can go to a local park with an electric foamie without the parent's involvement, that is what they will do.

 

Maybe the answer to the lack of local model shops as an outlet for low volume, low cost consumables, is a return to a cabinet of those items in other forms of retail outlet which have sufficient space?  This is what Fred W. Megow did with his 'Green Cabinets' in the height of the Great Depression as at the start of his modelling empire as described here: 
AMA -Fred W. Megow :

 

Sadly Robin, in this day and age, the green cabinet wouldn't last long.  Either vandals or thieves would see to that.

[Cuban8]

7 hours ago, FiddleSticks said:

 

You had to wait two days? That would drive me crazy! Admittedly thanks to ebay I've become a lot more patient these days but even so I still have that silent frustration eating away at me inside that i can't just go and get the thing in a shop down the road and use it the same day.

Interesting difference between us. I can't think of very much at all that I need instantly - even non-modelling paraphernalia. I do clearly recall a certain modelshop owner who I've mentioned before from the long and distant past, whose favourite and too often repeated line when one went in his shop for something or the other was...... "oh dear, so sorry, I sold the last one of those only just this morning".

[Futura57]

8 hours ago, FiddleSticks said:

You had to wait two days? That would drive me crazy! Admittedly thanks to ebay I've become a lot more patient these days but even so I still have that silent frustration eating away at me inside that i can't just go and get the thing in a shop down the road and use it the same day.

Someone needs an Amazon delivery drone 🤣

[Robin Colbourne]

7 hours ago, Peter Jenkins said:

Sadly Robin, in this day and age, the green cabinet wouldn't last long.  Either vandals or thieves would see to that.

Why do you say that Peter?  Is in-store vandalism a thing where you are?  The green cabinet was simply a product display within a shop, not a vending machine out on the pavement.

[Peter Miller]

6 hours ago, Robin Colbourne said:

Why do you say that Peter?  Is in-store vandalism a thing where you are?  The green cabinet was simply a product display within a shop, not a vending machine out on the pavement.

Have you seen the videos on the news of shoplifters helping themselves to arm fulls of goods right in front of the cameras?

The other snag with Cabinets is the vast range of similar items such as hinges and everyone has their own favourite  type of hinge.

I have very recently been searching for my own preferred type of hinge. Eventually located a supply but would a cabinet stock the type that I use?

[SIMON CRAGG]

We are much the same as any other club in terms of numbers, gradually declining overall. For each new member we have gained (four this year) at least as many have either passed or left the hobby for other health reasons. We have had to increase our subs by £20 to cover the shortfall and increased rent etc. Like most clubs we have a hard core of members, mainly the committee. The trend at the moment is smaller quick models ( EFX Racer / Multiplex Dogfighter/ Havok) EDF's and a variety of foamboard creations. Until HKUK comes back on line, most of us use SMC, Leeds, Inwoods, BG or Ali. All our model shops are long gone. We are lucky, in that we have a club shop in our mobile home on site. This is stocked with items donated by members who have given up and various other sources. Very useful for the odds and ends that we all need from time to time. We have tried EVERYTHING to recruit new members to no avail. The newbies we get usually come via the BMFA club finder. All in all, the hobby is not exactly dying, but is more or less on life support at present.

[Peter Jenkins]

7 hours ago, Robin Colbourne said:

Why do you say that Peter?  Is in-store vandalism a thing where you are?  The green cabinet was simply a product display within a shop, not a vending machine out on the pavement.

I cannot imagine a small shop today giving up retail space for such a cabinet in the first place Robin.  They have a tough enough time just surviving now, not to mentikn the point Peter Miller has made.  I thknk you are living in a dreamworld if you think such an approach would succeed today.  Yes you could advertise it on social media but, as we all know, thieves look on that as sn invitation to go and steal stuff.   Just look at how mzny rural churches have had the lead stolen from their roofs.  This is not a problem limited to towns and cities.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Peter Jenkins

[Cuban8]

2 hours ago, SIMON CRAGG said:

We are much the same as any other club in terms of numbers, gradually declining overall. For each new member we have gained (four this year) at least as many have either passed or left the hobby for other health reasons. We have had to increase our subs by £20 to cover the shortfall and increased rent etc. Like most clubs we have a hard core of members, mainly the committee. The trend at the moment is smaller quick models ( EFX Racer / Multiplex Dogfighter/ Havok) EDF's and a variety of foamboard creations. Until HKUK comes back on line, most of us use SMC, Leeds, Inwoods, BG or Ali. All our model shops are long gone. We are lucky, in that we have a club shop in our mobile home on site. This is stocked with items donated by members who have given up and various other sources. Very useful for the odds and ends that we all need from time to time. We have tried EVERYTHING to recruit new members to no avail. The newbies we get usually come via the BMFA club finder. All in all, the hobby is not exactly dying, but is more or less on life support at present.

This is really not a unique story - both of my clubs are in similar situations, certainly far from moribund but facing ageing memberships that are not being replaced sufficiently by new members as time and health issues take their toll. Genuine new and raw recruits to the hobby are rare, with enquiries mainly coming from returnees in their late 30s and 40s who now have the time and resources to apply, or other existing flyers who for one reason or another come from other clubs. Usually because of issues with flying fields restrictions or indeed the total loss of a flying site.

On the up side, both clubs operate well, with many new models appearing from time to time and busy flying sessions when the weather's fine - good social events, although the taste for what you might call more organised activities, such asthe  once very popular club competitions have become very poorly supported - one club hasn't bothered with them for many years and my other club is coming to a decision whether the time and effort is still worthwhile. Regular evening club meetings have also faded away in both clubs - younger members aren't really interested after a day's work and older members probably get a bit too comfortable to bother after their dinner.  Family get togethers that follow a fly-in type format with BBQ etc seem to be the way to go, and providing the summer weather cooperates are always well supported.

Just the way things are developing - not the end of the world at the moment.

 

[EvilC57]

18 hours ago, Futura57 said:

Someone needs an Amazon delivery drone 🤣

Not this one though. I don’t think a new porcelain tea set or a laptop would survive this kind of Amazon delivery!

[SIMON CRAGG]

Interesting.

We are having a committee meeting this week to discuss the club programme for next year.

The word "competitions" seems to strike fear into most members, although this year I ran 7 comps for 8 members with this years BIG FUN club model.

The members who took part, loved it and asked for similar next year.

I think we are going to have one committee member running each type of event on a "Fly-in" basis.

So committee member A is responsible for an EDF fly in etc.

We will not stipulate a day, rather a month, and try not to cancel any event just postpone.

By spreading the organising load, it will hopefully prevent the organiser who usually runs all the events (me),getting to despondent when hardly anybody shows up with a Warbird on Warbird Day for example.

Hopefully we will be able to include all the types of models in our hangers, including the "Hanger Queens".

We are organising a Christmas Bash and Secret Santa, and a club get together at our hall in November.

Formal meetings seem to be going out of popularity, so most issues get sorted out up the patch in the club caravan.

We are trying our best to be a proactive sociable club, with the onus on "Fun" in a safe environment.

But still will never please all the people all the time!

 

[leccyflyer]

Used to really enjoy club nights and was only talking about it a few minutes ago. We used to meet every Tuesday night, which then switched to every Thursday night due to a change of venue and, though most meetings were just social get togethers, we tried to have at least one meeting a month with a theme and one meeting a month included the committee meeting. The themes were very varied, but followed a recognisable format each year - new model night, at the beginning of the year, hands-on sessions on foam wing cutting, electric flight for beginners, four stroke engine strip down and maintenance, flight simulator competitions as well as visits from subject matter experts about different aspects of the hobby. The best ever was a marvellous talk by a local resident and friend of one of our senior members Jim Weston, who was a Mosquito pilot in the war and went on to have many adventures in the post war RAF. - his tales of active service were very engaging and a hugely enjoyable night was had by all. I don't think there's the interest nowadays, although one of our club members did do a laser cutting demo a few months ago, but unfortunately I wasn't able to attend.

[Erfolg]

Our hobby has changed in many, many ways, with time.

 

As a hobby will it survive? Well, a neighbour has a visitor, whose van advertises that it is a supplier of archery equipment. So this one time mainstream pastime , still continues in some manner.

 

In the past I have been someone who argued that the BMFA should be more than just a Insurance Broker of choice for aero modellers. I have seen that the BMFA has endeavoured to be more, to be relevant to modellers. By some I have been seen as anti BMFA, I can assure them I was not and I am not.

 

I can see that the BMFA has latterly recognised the changes facing us, in some instances in the past being in denial, CAA registration, not changing any thing in a substantial manner.

 

Resent changes are

• Changes to the funding of the Areas
• Creation of additional areas, leading to the addressing boundaries in other areas
• Changes to area funding
• the sale of Chatsfield house
• The NFC becoming the Head Office
• A recognition of the declining numbers of BMFA members, however many initiatives have been pursued.

Now stepping back from involvement with BMFA, I now see that members often see the primary services that the BMFA provides, often unconsciously as

 

• The provider of our insurance
• The hobbies interface with the UK authorities, such as the CAA
• A first port of call when a club or member encounters problems such as "planning", "Noise", loss of facilities such as a flying field, or restrictions.

A secondary aspect that is important, is the Safety issue, often addressed by the Achievement Scheme. I personally I take the view, that my prime objective is to fly a model, whilst doing so "safely". My object is not to be save, on that basis I would avoid modelling altogether, potentially avoiding all the risk potential. For me it is a emphasis issue. Safety should not be hammered down members throats, rather than being a way of planning and living life as well as our Hobby (primarily flying)

 

Other activities that were uppermost in BMFA thinking has been competitions. For most members they are generally of little paricipationary interest, many have no interest in the results. Yet it is often the organisers and participants that are and have been the driving the BMFA in all areas, plus levels. We need these people, without them there will be a different BMFA, more like the AA and RAC, just another business.

 

My one concern is that there must be transparency in the accounts, which clearly separates Head Office activities from the NFC. Any cross support being clearly shown. Ideally we need a definition of what head office activities are, and those for the NFC. Then it should be apparent who is being charged for what. The road to disaster has often been opaqueness in disguising the real world situation. I have observed this on another thread, where the inconvenient elephants in the room are denied or ignored.

 

Am I against the BMFA no, do accept change? I am not against the BMFA, only Luddites oppose all change. Yet not all change is good, but can sometimes be managed  by mitigating detriment.

 

I accept that much as been written is absolutely true, is it all bad, no, I try to adapt to change, although not always successful.

 

 

[Peter Jenkins]

Erfolg

 

I find your post quite extraordinary.

 

The BMFA has always been more than just an insurance provider.  The main thrust was based around Areas since travel nationally was difficult pre-motorways.  Areas organised contests, and some still do, while the National Championships were organised by the BMFA head office (SMAE trading as the BMFA).

 

As regards the NFC, you are about 6 years behind the times.  This was a big issue from the beginning of the NFC and was much discussed in Council, on this forum and the whole NFC issue was voted on at an EGM.  

 

The issue of future of the hobby has also been discussed at Council, Area and Club level.  It continues to be.

 

The Achievement Scheme is a fundamental, and not a secondary, activity of the BMFA.  It touches all those who fly radio control models.

 

I'm sure you added your views to each of these points in the past.  So, I'm curious to know why you choose to raise these issues as if they are new?

 

 

[Erfolg]

It is obvious that the BMFA is reorganising or restructuring how it operates.

 

How members see/view the BMFA is possibly very different as to how those involved in BMFA administration perceive how they are seen and how to interact etc

 

Many have said to myself that the BMFA is useless, some thinking that the Insurance can be obtained else where at lower cost. 

 

I have not agreed (in a general manner) with this view.

 

However times have changed, many members have come to recognise that interactions with the CAA etc. is important to the hobby. Others have not yet seen things this way. In the past everything just changed imperceptible. Commercial development of drones has changed things, I think will continue to apply pressure, to us at an increased rate

 

Other threats from onshore windfarms, housing developments could come to be another.

 

We are really talking about change of emphasis from the past. Yes the BMFA has always done many of these things, generally at a lower intensity. As times change, the high street changes, new opportunities have occurred. All I am suggesting that the general change of the BMFA organisation should be welcomed, as a concept. What needs to be kept in mind, that members and modellers views and priorities, will and have changed also. 

 

In the past the areas had a significant role in competitions. Often seen as the reason for there existence, yet another reason for the areas to refocus on their purpose. I believe they (areas) have a role. In the past I ran competitions in the distance where 80 competitors would attend, the last some years back now, I did not get 6.

 

The reduction in BMFA membership, is also a challenge to the BMFA, a reduction in principle of membership funds. In the immediate future I expect membership to continue to fall. Again emphasis for or the need to change. 

 

I am generally arguing that the change will change all aspects of this hobby.

[GrumpyGnome]

@ErfolgErm..... not sure how transparency of BMFA accounts has much bearing on the future of the hobby tbh.. am I missing something?

[Ron Gray]

[MattyB]

1 hour ago, GrumpyGnome said:

@ErfolgErm..... not sure how transparency of BMFA accounts has much bearing on the future of the hobby tbh.. am I missing something?

 

Indeed. Whilst ongoing changes in the hobby (particularly regulation and demographics) will have an effect on the BMFA and other national associations (and therefore a secondary effect on their members), those clearly weren't the changes the OP was talking about in his original post, so digging into the BMFA's finances and mission seems rather OT for this particular thread.

Edited October 27, 2023 by MattyB

[kevin b]

Back to the plot.

 

The future of the hobby is out of our hands and is in the ones who follow us.

We can only encourage and assist those who come along and show an interest in it, as they will (but not necessarily in numbers seen in the past).