Don Fry Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 27 minutes ago, John Lee said: Whilst I moved over from IC to electric flight a few years ago I'm sure that IC will remain a viable option for those that prefer that motive power. While cars replaced horses, we still have horse riding. Railways usurped the canals but we still have an active inland waterways life. Internal combustion replaced steam but we still have traction engine rallies The world is ever changing but there is always room for those that hanker after an older technology. Pedantry I know, but electric motors are the older technology, 1820 and 1860 (ish) 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) 20 hours ago, Rich Griff said: I have used apart from carbontet . Carbon tetrachloride, now that is a dangerous stuff. Used mainly in small pump action fire extinguishers found in cars and lorriesof the day. Its use was banned in these extinguishes due to it releasing phosgene and free carbon if it hit red heat metal . We were taught this in the Fire Brigade and to be very careful with its use on small car fires. It was easily obtainable and used as you say for degreasing. Plating companies used tanks of it to degrease bits . We even used it to thin paint for spraying ! Then it was discovered how dangerous it was and caused liver disease . Edited April 5 by Engine Doctor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hilton Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Carbon tet was used as dry cleaning fluid too .All chlorinated hydrocarbons are toxic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 A ww1 nerve/poison gas.... Methanol, that's the word I heard mentioned on the TV program. I mentioned it followed by a ? Will watch repeat on Sunday ? Funnily enough glow engines run on the stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 1 hour ago, Engine Doctor said: Carbon tetrachloride, now that is a dangerous stuff. Used mainly in small pump action fire extinguishers found in cars and lorriesof the day. My Dad once used one to put out a chip pan fire!!! Which it did, but we all had to leg it out of the house quick and stay out for good while for fear of being gassed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) Doesn't the issue of IC engines continuing to be available to our hobby simply rest upon somebody's motivation to manufacture them? Apologies for stating the obvious. The motivation? A viable, growing market to sell the products to in quantity, and at a margin that makes the whole venture worthwhile and profitable. A mixed bunch of products from the throw away varienty (well almost) through the mid ranges and than the top of the market complex products for the aspiring types. We used to have that twenty or thirty plus years ago, but no more. Clearly, the Chinese manufacturers who really did a wonderful job of producing a wide range of affordable and perfectly good engines had their motivation drained from them. The likes of ASP, SC and a few other smaller brands, must have sold millions of engines to a world wide audience, but dropped them like a hot brick and in short order. I wonder what those firms are doing now - the tooling investment must have been vast to produce such a huge range of engines even with the much reduced cost of Asian manufacturing. OS and Saito must be facing a similar problem - their range is a shadow of its former self and the cost of their products is much increased. As far as I'm aware the Indian manufacturers don't seem to be interested in filling the void. They're not fools, they know the sales are just are no longer there in the quantities needed. The use of IC will continue without a problem in our hobby for quite a few years yet - mainly driven by older modellers recycling older engines and bringing old shed stock back into use, I suspect - but when age etc finally does catch up.....then what? Does it really matter anyway? Enjoy it while you can. Edited April 5 by Cuban8 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 hours ago, Rich Griff said: A ww1 nerve/poison gas.... Methanol, that's the word I heard mentioned on the TV program. I mentioned it followed by a ? Will watch repeat on Sunday ? Funnily enough glow engines run on the stuff. Rich - please read my previous post and respect my request to drop this irrelevant thread drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 OOPS, my bad also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) With respect, how can talking about IC engine fuel be "thread drift " ? That's a bit like saying batteries have nothing to do with electric propulsion, and, weather, the air, the medium in which model aeroplanes fly, is irrelevant ? God knows how much "drift" will take place in the "car" thread, electric "fuel" versus "refined crude oil" or even "grown" fuel....etc... However, I will shut up about the "fuel" dimension to this thread. Watch the repeat of the TV program on Sunday probably, I am sure it was the "hairy bikers" , and listen for the word mentioned whilst they where in the distillery.... Have a great day out there. Edited April 5 by Rich Griff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 With equal respect, the drift is in continuing to discuss the blind alley of producing methanol from instructions in a cooking show. They may well have mentioned ethanol, which suitably diluted can be tolerated by the human body - you'll know it better as alcohol or booze. Continued availability of model glow fuel or its constituents is a valid point - happily these products are readily available although some searching around for suppliers of small quantities might be needed as well as a license to obtain/stock nitromethane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Off topic post deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Hopefully remaining on topic.........the continuing availability of fuel to us will become an issue in the not too near future, I suspect. A much reduced range from the remaining domestic manufacturers that will reflect the gradual shrinking use of IC, will probably be the starting sign. Eventually, I guess not in the immediate future, we'll rely on imported fuel from the US who may be able to sustain production supporting their reduced but still very big model industry for a while longer. The humble glowplug's on-going availability or lack of, might cut the ground from our feet before everything else if we're not careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said: Off topic post deleted You best get busy deleting all the other off topic posts on this and the other threads then!! Edited April 5 by Learner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Not all threads have requests to stop discussing a particular drift. I'm sure you missed that. Please let this drop and let's get back to discussing the future of model IC engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Robson Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Some time back I had a gallon of methanol and some oil given, from a retired modeller. He used to do pylon racing and mixed his own fuel, he didn't have any nitro left, I mixed the fuel and oil as advised and tried it in an old engine it worked fine. I used the rest up mainly in my Acrowot. The point is that if fuel blending companies close down would there still be a source for methanol which could be bought in quantities for modellers to blend there own or maybe the club could buy it in bulk. To end all the doom and gloom I think IC will be with us for many years to come. I have all my options open as I fly electric, petrol and glow, but don't do the free wind power gliders. At 88 years or age I think IC engines will be still going when my spark has gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 You can get Methanol over here for camping cars, it's used to create electric,,, and Castor oil is readily available, I use both in my motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Loads of suppliers on Ebay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 I was given a couple of gallons of high nitro high oil fuel [ Heli stuff ] Purchased 2 gallons methanol fuel on line and mixed them to have a lower nitro/oil fuel all my engines 4 and 2 stroke, all have been happy on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) PM sent Edited April 5 by Martin Harris - Moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lee Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Obtaining Methanol will be the least of your problems in running IC engines. I only started to realise how big the market is when one of our members got a job running a methanol production plant in the Philippines a couple of decades ago. Methanol has numerous industrial uses and a quick search indicates that the global market is worth about $40 Billion and is in the region of 120 million metric tons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) Glow fuel will be around for a long time, provided there is a market for it. Edited April 5 by leccyflyer Read Martin's post, after posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Don't worry Leccy - the drift referred to was regarding an idea to "manufacture" methanol in the home kitchen. I think we can accept that while we're right to be concerned over fuel supplies, there's every likelihood that it won't be a show stopper for the foreseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Understood - however I edited because I hadn't read your post and I'd referred to that nonsense about home brewing methanol. Something HMRC would likely take a very restrictive view on and, of course, completely unnecessary, given the legitimate sources of methanol being quite secure, at least in our lifetimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Hi John, hope that's not the plant that blow up quite some years ago now...remember that anyone ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 ? is a question mark by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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