The Gov't, CAA, BMFA & UAV legislation thread

[Solly]

Or a photocopy of our passports!

[Alan Gorham_]

Posted by Gavin Mack on 12/12/2019 13:39:51:

Not sue if this has already been discussed but if your operator ID is on the outside, then anyone could take your operator ID and put it on their drone or plane, fly it and possibly crash it near an airport etc. You would have difficulty proving you weren't flying. Although more complicated each plane should have a unique number displayed on it, linked to an operator id which is kept private.

Imagine if all the cars, lorries and buses on the road had a registration number clearly displayed for people to clone. Probably a stupid idea that would never catch on.

I bet it would be quite easy to prove that you weren't actually flying a drone should your number happen to be cloned. A simple alibi would normally be enough I would think.

Also, are our models in front of the public enough for someone criminal to even see the number to be able to clone it? No is my answer to that.

In any case, this is a done deal so if you don't display an operator ID on or in your model then you are flying unlawfully, which seems a much worse alternative to me than any of the scenarios you outlined.

Edited By Alan Gorham_ on 20/12/2019 12:03:47

[Nigel R]

what if we don't have a passport?

(mine's simply due for renewal, before you ask)

"there is an increasing movement towards drones that avoid legislation by weighing in at 249g"

And they have FPV capability.

[GONZO]

Posted by Nigel R on 20/12/2019 12:14:29:

what if we don't have a passport?

(mine's simply due for renewal, before you ask)

"there is an increasing movement towards drones that avoid legislation by weighing in at 249g"

And they have FPV capability.

If they have any information gathering device 'fitted'(doesn't have to be used) like a camera/microphone then you will have to register and pay the model tax.

[Martin_K]

Posted by Nigel Heather on 20/12/2019 11:06:22:

1. walking around Christmas shopping I still see lots of drones being sold in the likes of Currys, MenKind, Tesco etc. and not one of them is giving any advice, leaflets or signage about the requirements of the registration scheme.
2. ..... and I read that there is an increasing movement towards drones that avoid legislation by weighing in at 249g

Are model shops publishing regulations in-store or on-line? I haven't seen any so doing.

Are only quadcopter makers building sub 250 gram models? I stopped the build of a larger model and switched to a sub 250 gram fixed wing project.

I am not avoiding legislation, I am complying with it as I see fit, i.e. until the exact implementation of the EASA rules are known I will hedge my bets.

[Brian Cooper]

I was in Lidl yesterday and they had two different models of large drones for sale. . Both clearly aimed at the Christmas market, and both were obviously over 250 grams. ...and not a single reference to any CAA legislation.

I pointed this out to the management in the shop, and just got a blank stare in return. . I might as well have been speaking a foreign language.

There's going to be a lot of people, young and not so young, who will be breaking the law on Christmas morning.

[GONZO]

Posted by Martin_K on 20/12/2019 13:38:46:

I am not avoiding legislation, I am complying with it as I see fit, i.e. until the exact implementation of the EASA rules are known I will hedge my bets.

Exactly, plus I thought I'd give CL a try as I've never done it. 1st July and the 'flavour' of discussions .should give an idea of the way things may be going

[Don Fry]

Posted by GONZO on 20/12/2019 12:26:30:

Posted by Nigel R on 20/12/2019 12:14:29:

what if we don't have a passport?

(mine's simply due for renewal, before you ask)

 

"there is an increasing movement towards drones that avoid legislation by weighing in at 249g"

And they have FPV capability.

If they have any information gathering device 'fitted'(doesn't have to be used) like a camera/microphone then you will have to register and pay the model tax.

Do they. Has something changed, I thought the operator tax applied to weight only.

And on a practical level Gonzo, when learning to fly control line, or reaqainting with it past childhood, don't do it on a full stomach. Ask me how I know.

How I hate spellcheckers

Edited By Don Fry on 20/12/2019 14:21:45

Edited By Don Fry on 20/12/2019 14:22:15

Edited By Don Fry on 20/12/2019 14:22:43

Edited By Don Fry on 20/12/2019 14:23:36

[Peter Miller]

You know, there must be something wrong with the members in our club.

The ones with A and B certs will just hand in their £9 and allthe others have passed the tests with no trouble.

Not a moan, No bellyaching, not an argument, Not a single "I am going to give up modelling!" They all just got on with it. From all the above, all 58 pages of it, obviously none of us are normal.

Thank God for that!!!

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[BackinBlack]

Peter,

Same in my Club, no fuss. Everyone just got on with renewing subs and paying their £9 if also paying BMFA via the club.

Here it seems that some are seeking out problems that don't exist.

I'm sure that for the majority of us flying will carry on as normal with no particular worries about where to put numbers etc....

Edited By BackinBlack on 20/12/2019 16:11:32

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

...and at our AGM too.

We outlined the requirements, answered a few questions, proposed a rule that all members must comply with any current model related legislation, which was carried unanimously, and the renewals simply proceeded as normal at the end of the meeting.

[cymaz]

+1

My club is paying the £9 for each club member...for this year only. We have the funds saved so it was decided to return some money to individuals

[Keith Evans 3]

Apologies if this has already been covered .My question is ,If I have obtained my operator I.D. via the C.A.A.and if I were to try for an A certificate next year ,would I still be required to answer any questions after I have completed the flying part of the test ?

[PeterF]

Yes because the questions also cover issues such as safe operation of model aircraft which you still need to demonstrate and are nothing to do with flying legislation.

[Engine Doctor]

Posted by Keith Evans 3 on 21/12/2019 09:07:21:

Apologies if this has already been covered .My question is ,If I have obtained my operator I.D. via the C.A.A.and if I were to try for an A certificate next year ,would I still be required to answer any questions after I have completed the flying part of the test

Yes you will . The Competency test will not count towards your BMFA achievement scheme test and the Examiner will still be required to ask you questions covering a wider range of subjects than the CAA test.

 

Edited By Engine Doctor on 21/12/2019 11:17:30

[alex nicol]

Let say first of all I don't mean to offend and fully appreciate the time and effort our organisations have put into getting this to where it is but does anybody else feel this subject has been done to death and is becoming as tiresome as B@#%it

[Tim Kearsley]

Posted by alex nicol on 21/12/2019 11:43:53:

Let say first of all I don't mean to offend and fully appreciate the time and effort our organisations have put into getting this to where it is but does anybody else feel this subject has been done to death and is becoming as tiresome as B@#%it

After 59 pages I completely agree Alex, but I guess we don't have to read it if we don't want to do we?

Tim.

[Dickw]

Posted by alex nicol on 21/12/2019 11:43:53:

Let say first of all I don't mean to offend and fully appreciate the time and effort our organisations have put into getting this to where it is but does anybody else feel this subject has been done to death and is becoming as tiresome as B@#%it

For those of us who have been following this since the start - probably yes.

BUT - some people are still coming to this for the first time so there will still be questions to be answered.

AND - we have yet to see what will happen in the summer with possible new legislation.

Dick

[Nigel Heather]

Out of interest just had a quick search on google, filtered to the last month. Clearly there are plenty of drone pilots who are unaware of the laws or simply don’t care.

Not only are these flight videos posted publicly with the operator probably traceable through their youtube account but quite often they show themselves in the video.

One notable one shows a 20 minute flight along the Thames, getting right up close to the London Eye and Tower Bridge.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Old Geezer]

Which I suppose confirms the necessity for the legislation AND confirms our suspicions that the there is an entirely different mind set to be found in a self-promoting minority of drone flyers. Hopefully the "Authorities" will take the time and trouble to identify such antisocial individuals and in the fullness of time visit condign punishment on them - if for no other reason than "Pour encourager Les Autres"!

I don't want to try to teach the BMFA P/R dept. their job, but whenever such activities of the droners come to light, and particularly to court, there is an open goal for a press release to be fired off contrasting the safe and legal behaviour of the generality of model plane flyers over so many years and the antisocial behaviour of a minority of droners which resulted in the restrictions that have been visited on the godly and the ungodly together!

Edited By Old Geezer on 02/01/2020 08:00:02

[John Stainforth]

There's some bad news from America today. The FAA are proposing some much tougher rules on model and drone flying there. Why is this relevant to us? Because we end up following very similar rules, with a time lag.

[Martin_K]

There is a more direct reason why USA regulation impacts UK consumers. The much larger value of the US market means manufactures are likely to develop their products to meet US standards.

[Frank Skilbeck]

Posted by Martin_K on 03/01/2020 09:00:03:

There is a more direct reason why USA regulation impacts UK consumers. The much larger value of the US market means manufactures are likely to develop their products to meet US standards.

Or EU standards, don't forget we have different standards for 2.4 ghz RC systems. And there are many other examples of where EU standards differ from US standards.

[Martin_K]

Frank, I agree that different versions of product already exist for the US and EU markets. Until we see the final version of the proposals for Remote ID in the US I am speculating. The FAA do seem to be thinking of Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems however, i.e. the transmitter / receiver / aircraft as a complete package. If changes to radios become required (identifying location of control station as well as aircraft) we will have moved beyond just different firmware for receivers.

Then there is the FAA concept of tamper proof remote ID hardware. There was a comment on the forum recently about putting the Electronics back into RCM&E. How topical.