The Gov't, CAA, BMFA & UAV legislation thread

[leccyflyer]

Posted by kc on 17/02/2020 19:42:04:

Nigel asked " Was that via the BMFA? "

Nigel, the email was from CAA and I paid the £9 via my BMFA sub. I expected to get a Flyer ID because I am a BMFA A certificate holder.

If you are a BMFA A Certificate holder you do not need to have a flyer ID - you are exempt from that requirement.

[kc]

Well I thought the Flyer ID was needed after the current exemption expires therefore it would come in due course to us A cert holders. But who knows!

[Denis Watkins]

Before you fly

Make sure you label your operator ID on all drones or model aircraft you’re responsible for. Find out how at **LINK**.

Flying drones or model aircraft

Always check that anyone who flies your drone or model aircraft has a valid flyer ID.

If you’ll fly a drone or model aircraft yourself, you’ll need a flyer ID. You may be asked to show your flyer ID or operator ID to a police officer or other official. Find out how at **LINK**.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

That's general advice to members of the public - the exemption is just that...exemption from the normal requirements for association members who [sorry if I didn't make this clear last post] hold appropriate certification.

My understanding is that the CAA have recognised that the certification schemes run by the organisations are at least equivalent to their own rather easy "test" and as such, unless overridden by the impending European legislation there's little reason to change this.  If anyone really wants a flyer ID there's no reason why they can't take the "unfailable" free test anyway.

Edited By Martin Harris on 17/02/2020 20:20:47

[Nigel Heather]

Posted by leccyflyer on 17/02/2020 19:45:08:

Posted by kc on 17/02/2020 19:42:04:

Nigel asked " Was that via the BMFA? "

Nigel, the email was from CAA and I paid the £9 via my BMFA sub. I expected to get a Flyer ID because I am a BMFA A certificate holder.

If you are a BMFA A Certificate holder you do not need to have a flyer ID - you are exempt from that requirement.

Interesting. I don’t have an A Certificate, although I have been flying for many years I have never bothered to do it, will be putting that right soon. So I had to do the BMFA competence test.

So does that mean when my email comes through from the CAA does that mean I will get an Operator ID and a Flyer ID?

Out of interest I would love to know how the CAA are doing the upload. You’d hope it is an electronic interface but I wouldn’t be surprised if they haven’t got Doris sat with a printout of BMFA data keying in the information one member at a time.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Dickw]

Posted by Nigel Heather on 17/02/2020 20:47:37:........

So does that mean when my email comes through from the CAA does that mean I will get an Operator ID and a Flyer ID?

........................

You will get an Operator ID but not a Flyer ID.

If you have the BMFA RCC you are exempt from needing a Flyer ID.

Dick

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Posted by kc on 17/02/2020 20:03:20:

Well I thought the Flyer ID was needed after the current exemption expires therefore it would come in due course to us A cert holders. But who knows!

The most likely scenario is that all current exemptions available to BMFA/SAA/LMA etc memebrs will be built in to the specific permission that the CAA will be arranging with the associations. The idea from the end of June is that are no longer any exemptions as they will no longer be needed (hence the valid until date) as everything will be covered by the associations permission.

[MattyB]

Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 17/02/2020 19:21:21:

Posted by PeterF on 17/02/2020 19:15:00:

One thought crops up, more than 20% of the members in our club either had no DoB or a shortened first name / nick name in the BMFA membership. Despite the BMFA emailing all members with email and me doing the same (club sec) I had to chase up individual members to get the correct information. I expect that the CAA have probably been given a set of data with a lot of erroneous data in and that there will be a significant number of modellers that do not get a number because they fail the government ID verification. These modellers will not get their number in the next 7 days and will need more time. Perhaps the CAA were expecting to receive only good quality data.

Actually when we uploaded the data on 3rd Feb they immediately ran the verification prcoess and only 250 or so records came back with an issue, they were all corrected and the data was all uploaded again on 10th Feb. So just a matter of waiting for the CAA to import to their systems which is in process as some have receivbed operator IDs' already. Check your spam folder. If nothing has arrived by 23rd Feb give the office a call.

But to be clear, with the new exemption granted there is no legal requirement for members to display any Op ID number they have received on their models til it expires, correct? The exemption simply states all national association members are exempted from Article 94D; it is not limited only to those members who are yet to register as Operators. I must admit I am baffled as to why this has been issued so late in the day unless there was some kind of issue at the CAA with the upload, but from your posts above it seems that isn’t the case.

[Nigel Heather]

Posted by Dickw on 17/02/2020 20:50:38:

Posted by Nigel Heather on 17/02/2020 20:47:37:........

So does that mean when my email comes through from the CAA does that mean I will get an Operator ID and a Flyer ID?

........................

You will get an Operator ID but not a Flyer ID.

If you have the BMFA RCC you are exempt from needing a Flyer ID.

Dick

Thanks, that is what I thought, I only asked because there were posts suggesting that the exemption only applied if you had an A or B certificate.

But it is actually, if you have a A or B Certificate or you have passed the BMFA competency test.

Cheers,

Nigel

[MattyB]

Latest update from the BMFA... Basically it’s a case of watch this space for 24hrs, the CEO Dave Phipps is communicating with the CAA for a clarification:

”Following the recent update  and issue of the latest exemption from the CAA we have had correspondence from members asking for clarification on the matter.

The BMFA's CEO has been in communication with the CAA over the matter with the hope of bringing a clearer picture and concrete guidance for BMFA members.

With the social media rumour mill doing its best to muddy the waters, can we ask that our members please sit tight for 24 hours whilst whilst the CEO works hard for a clearer resolution.

Further updates will follow... please keep checking the BMFA's Official Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/BMFAOfficial/ and here and your emails for further guidance.

The CAA are in the process of sending out Operator IDs for all those who registered through the BMFA before 10th February. Please check your junk/spam just in case. The email comes from email address [email protected].”

Edited By MattyB on 18/02/2020 09:51:26

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[GONZO]

It's clear enough to me. As Steve J say's, "operator registration is optional until the 30th June for association members". As I chose not to register to start with I think I will wait to see what developments occur. In the mean time I'll dust off a few 'standard' planes.

[Gary Manuel]

I look forward to receiving my £9 back from the CAA as I am now exempt .....

[MattyB]

Posted by Steve J on 18/02/2020 10:02:24:

Posted by MattyB on 18/02/2020 00:33:27:

The exemption simply states all national association members are exempted from Article 94D; it is not limited only to those members who are yet to register as Operators.

ORS4 1345 makes operator registration optional until the 30th June for association members. I wish that I had kept to my original plan of not registering until just before my first flight after the 31st January.

Posted by GONZO on 18/02/2020 10:47:18:

It's clear enough to me. As Steve J say's, "operator registration is optional until the 30th June for association members". As I chose not to register to start with I think I will wait to see what developments occur. In the mean time I'll dust off a few 'standard' planes.

Yep, I think we are all agreeing here that the latest exemption to 94D can be used by any national association member. My response was really in reply to Martin Harris' statement on the page 66 where he suggested those who had registered and received an OpID may need to display it even given the new exemption.

Edited By MattyB on 18/02/2020 11:04:57

[Richard Acland]

Not sure what I have missed. I am a BMFA member I have no BMFA achievement certs. In November I paid and did the test with the CAA. I have now fitted my operators number to all my models as per instructions. Has anything changed?

[Alan Gorham_]

Yes and no Richard. You now legally don't have to display the Operator ID on your models until the exemption expires at the end of June.

Some of us are still waiting for Operator IDs and I guess the new exemption gives the CAA more time to get all the IDs issued.

[Geoff Copping]

The exemption is from the date it was signed, 17th Feb, unless previously revoked, which it had been until 23rd Feb so therefore I did not need to pay the £9.

I received my numbers yesterday which I have just applied to my aircraft.

I hope now that I will either be refunded my £9 or it will, at least, be effective for 12 months from June 30th?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

HS2 how late, how much over budget, £9 and some teething problems ? Meh, go fly or build if weathers stopping you, not had mine yet.

[Erfolg]

With reference to the Baroness, I have been back through the many posts and a similar thread, to date I have not positively identified the person. I do seem to remember that it was Baroness Sugg. The important aspect was that many forumites were very very pleased with her replacement (I think as an undersecretary by Grant Shapps), as many took the view she had an apparent disregard to cogent argument and facts.

What was apparent that the then agenda was not only the prevention of reckless and regulation flights by drones, it was primarily the creation of an environment for the future broader usage of drones in a commercial environment.

So we had moved from a scenario of no changes to us, to one where there would be change.

From a political perspective you can see that it was necessary to be seen to undertake measures that were designed to reduce the chances of another set of incidents that bedeviled many London airports, one of which being significant.

Looking back through the posts, I saw that I suggested that the present situation with regard to the issue of unique identifiers was predicted, whilst some poohed the suggestion. Not that I have any clairvoyance abilities, just that it is par for the course.

One of my current concerns, is with respect to our first Baroness's vision. That is creating a commercial viable set of regulations, environment and controls for drones. Assuming this remains part of the Dft driver, creating, and managing such a system comes at a price. Any system that makes use of transponders in real time I imagine comes with a price tag. Creating a data base of transponder identifiers is just the beginning. Making use of real time data, I would expect to be quite costly.

Possibly the best we can hope for is a exemption from the system if operating from designated sites. Even the site have a collective transponder/marker, could require a contribution to the system.

At present one of our difficulties, is not understanding what the long term Dft goals are. The CAA is in a similar position to us, being told what to do.

I wonder what the EASA regulations state or indicate what the minimum expectation is to be compliant with their current regulations? Are they as far reaching as the development of UK regs appear to be heading?

Edited By Erfolg on 18/02/2020 12:07:07

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I believe it's still Mr Shapps, he's also the new Minister for revitalising the Northern Powerhouse.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Erfolg]

I see the way I reference Grant Shapps, it gives the impression I thought he was the replacement Under Secretary. What I was trying to convey, was that when Grant Shapps became the secretary, he replaced the undersecretary.

Seems I need to try harder.

In an not critical of any one on (what I call) our side. Although from where we started we have failed. That is there would be no substantive changes to how we pursue our hobby. It is a task (negotiating), where success, is failure, in that there has been change. All you can argue is that the change has been limited, with respect to a worse case scenario. Which may or may not be true, as the "Messenger" you stand a good chance of being shot.

I am expecting that our representatives, will be or are back trying to limit the threats to the hobby. By now I am sure that the repeated pressures of dealing with the constant changes that the Dft makes, as it is pushing its agenda, will lead many to be jaded, A solution (one of many I imagine) is to bring some of the other BMFA officers into the battle, whilst they take a rest, perhaps developing a strategy for the negotiators, or for the team when they return to the fray.

Unlike many, I have and remain, a believer that these developments are currently the greatest threat to our part of the hobby.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I'd hesitate to destroy the obviously good relationships that have been built between the BMFA negotiators and the CAA, who seem refreshingly willing to act as a buffer between the excesses of some politicians and our interests.

In terms of the current situation, little has changed...I need to carry some scraps of paper or my smartphone in the car while I'm flying and seem to have paid £9 unnecessarily to the CAA via the BMFA. Much of the forthcoming legislation is out of the UK government's hands.

I think that far from being described as jaded, our representatives should be thanked for their effective handling of a difficult situation and asked to carry on the good work!

[Cuban8]

One of our three older members without computers, had their OP ID sent through to our club's email account today. Nothing for the remaining two as yet or my own.

Seems to have started..............