E10 petrol

[Martin McIntosh]

Any thoughts on how this may affect our engines? Evidently it will accelerate degrading of rubber parts such as Walbro carb diaphragms and tank bungs maybe? They are saying that many lawn mowers and strimmers will be rendered useless (using the same carbs which we do); also that the shelf life may only be 8 days rather than years.

[Shaun Walsh]

Use Esso super unleaded no ethanol added unless you live in the South West of England (don't ask me why).

[Don Fry]

Use the 98 RON stuff, it’s 5 %, and use a fuel stabilizer, the Briggs and Stratton stuff is Ok. If you fly a lot.

 The 10 % stuff has a shelf life of 30 days, ( caveat, read best before date). and by God it rots fuel pipes. And a carb does not look good after swimming in chewing gum, and corrosion.

 

Or use Alkyl fuel. For the fuel we use, less hassle, and unless to value wasted time at nothing, cheaper. 
 

5% 98 Ron is coming to you, enjoy.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Don Fry

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

My tools are on the E5 high octane now, not be able to keep up with the mower. 15p a litre more.

[Gordon Whitehead 1]

Ethanol has only 60% or so of the calorific value of petrol, so presumably E10 will will deliver a lower mpg and lower top speed than neat petrol and for the same power you'll need a wider throttle opening.  Dunno if anyone will notice.

[Alan Hilton]

Use Aspin it’s a bit more expensive but worth it

[Alan Hilton]

Hi Gordon 

you are right on the enthalpy of combustion ,but you get a better ratio of fuel to oxygen for an explosive mixture with alcohols so it’s swings and roundabouts 

[John Stainforth]

46 minutes ago, Gordon Whitehead 1 said:

Ethanol has only 60% or so of the calorific value of petrol, so presumably E10 will will deliver a lower mpg and lower top speed than neat petrol and for the same power you'll need a wider throttle opening.  Dunno if anyone will notice.

I had a Toyota Prius in the US for 16 years, where they have had E10 for much of that time. Sometimes "gas" stations don't add the ethanol, or forget to add it. (The ethanol is delivered separately there and simply added into the underground petrol tanks at the gas station, in the right proportion.) I watch my mpg all the time and I found that under typical driving conditions my Prius would do 48 mpg (that's miles per US gallon) on petrol without ethanol and about 45 on E10. I could spot the difference between the two fuels after just a few miles of driving. So I think E10 is of very debatable value for the environment, particular when the energy to grow the ethanol crops (corn) is taken into account. In the US, the whole E10 was generally viewed as a subsidy to farmers. 

[Engine Doctor]

E 10 is just a way oil companies can make more money and hoodwink folk into believing its "green" . You can remove all of the ethanol by adding a measured amount of water , mixing thoroughly and allow to stand for 24 hrs. Ethanol will mix with water and settle out.  So 10% ethanol in say 5ltrs of petrol will be  500 ml . Mix in 1.5 ltrs of water and you should get 2ltr of water ethanol mix.  A large clear water bottle as used in water cooling machines will be an ideal container for this and a drain tap could be fitted to drain off the water or use a large syringe to draw it off.  Ethanol is also a cheaper way of raising the octane number of petrol so an octane additive will have to be added. Its a chore but so is stripping, cleaning and replacing bits in walbro carbs.  

[John Stainforth]

E10 was not an initiative of the oil companies, and I am pretty sure they don't make more money with this fuel than E0. 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

10 hours ago, Alan Hilton said:

Use Aspin it’s a bit more expensive but worth it

Own mix with expensive 98 octane and Motul 710 oil, less than 8€ for 5 litres Aspen 20€ up for the same, as I use around 2 litres of motul a year work out the difference,,,

[Gary Manuel]

I've noticed a few lawn mowers down my street spluttering and struggling to run over the last couple of weeks. I suspect that this might be something to do with using the new E10 95RON fuel. I'll be using E5 98RON in mine from now on (and in my petrol models).

[MattyB]

3 hours ago, Gary Manuel said:

I've noticed a few lawn mowers down my street spluttering and struggling to run over the last couple of weeks. I suspect that this might be something to do with using the new E10 95RON fuel. I'll be using E5 98RON in mine from now on (and in my petrol models).

Alternatively you can add a fuel treatment, the one recommended for my Briggs and Stratton engined mower is very affordable (£5).

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by MattyB

[Kim Taylor]

4 hours ago, Gary Manuel said:

I've noticed a few lawn mowers down my street spluttering and struggling to run over the last couple of weeks. I suspect that this might be something to do with using the new E10 95RON fuel. I'll be using E5 98RON in mine from now on (and in my petrol models).

This is an old hobby horse of mine, but it's more likely to be standard 'unleaded' (E5) going stale. It's usually not so critical in things like lawnmowers, etc. but in a high stress situation I've known even 98 or 99 RON 'Super' unleaded go 'off' within a week when stored in a sealed but part filled can.

Also I tried to start my generator (5.5hp Honda motor) recently for the first time for a year or more. Wouldn't have anything to do with it until I drained the old 'petrol' (which smelled really nasty) and put some fresh in, whereupon it went second pull.

My motorcycle is not compatible with E10, due to the plastic petrol tank, so it's super unleaded for that (the tank has even swelled a bit previously using E5 unleaded). Don't know if our nylon? tanks would be affected like this.

Kim

 

[Martin McIntosh]

I rarely fly my petrol models but have had petrol stored for 10 years which still worked. Decided to chuck it and make up a new mix some time ago and they ran just the same, no idea what E No. it was.

I have Russian copy of a Honda generator which I neglected to start up occasionally as I should have done and the main jet has silted up meaning that it will only run with the choke on, despite drilling out the many 0.3mm holes.

My concern is the diaphragms in Walbros which ideally should be kept wet. Despite very little use I have recently needed to replace a hardened one. There must be a way of doing this without them being submersed in this new rubbish.

[Frank Skilbeck]

As somebody above noted the US has been on E10 fuel for 15+ years you don't read lots of posts on this on US forums.

 

And while E10 does have less calorific value than E0, the ethanol raises the octane level so engine optimised to run on it should be slightly more efficient.

[Don Fry]

Matty is spot on, the Briggs  and Stratton stuff is good, other stabilizers also exist.

But they are a plaster on a wound.

I use outboard motors, and use them without stabilizers, but end of season, they run on alkyl, so that muck does not overwinter in the motor, and the remaining fuel is donated to a friend, who is a landscape gardener,  who has a big allotment. And I get my gift back. 
But my outboard motors, and petrol stoves, use 50 times more fuel than the aircraft. Little motors, in aircraft, intermittent use, use Aspen.
Then I do not do the checks, charging, off to the field, don’t start, persist, fail and wander home with that, waste of a morning moment. And then do the repairs. 
 

A sobering moment this year, France, holidays in summer. And boat owners, suddenly find the ethanol petrol mix has stopped the motor from running after overwintering storage, (service?). These are normally smaller motors, 40 horse down, the bigger stuff sucks the debris through. A 40 horse is about 5 grand each by the way.  And in June, the dealers are flooded. And me, nowt special, but apparently with a following, has a client base to sort. I am retired. I have sufficient income. I therefore charge commercial rates. No negotiation.  I don’t want a queue. That’s a euro a minute. I turned customers away. I have a life to lead.

 

If you want your little carbs sorted, I will do it. Note the rate, above, out of season only.
Or use Aspen, or at least stabilized 98 Ron in the tiny motors we fly.

And Frank, with 15 years experience, the USA has learned to live with it, as I have with 5 years or so. I don’t think American ethanol is not hydroscopic.

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Don Fry
Last para

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Screwfix etc do stabilier, bit cheaper than your diy shops.

Mowers have been working all season, ropey running more likely to be dirty airfilter or sumat, I've had to use E10 this week because pumps only had that, tools ran fine, will be buying new now pumps are sorted.

[Richard Acland]

I have checked in my area and there is one service station still selling super unleaded which I need for my garden equipment. Will super unleaded always be available or will it eventually be phased out completely.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

What's the opinion on the higher octane fuel for the car, you notice any difference ?

Ran mine on it today.

[Frank Skilbeck]

9 hours ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

What's the opinion on the higher octane fuel for the car, you notice any difference ?

Ran mine on it today.

You would only notice if the engine was set up for the higher octane, some high performance engines automatically adjust the ignition timing etc to optimise ignition and hence power, they do this via knock sensors in the engine. If the engine is setup for lower octane fuel then as they don't optimise the settings for the higher octane there is no benefit.

[Rich Griff]

I have to say I get my petrol from Morrisons fuel station in Caernarfon and run an old honda twin ( early eighties 250 superslug ) on it.

 

I always turn off the fuel just before home and allow the engine/carbs to run out of fuel and stop.

 

It seems to run slightly better on the local fuel ( E10 ? Will check on the pump next time I visit ) seems to have slightly more power, but I still add a little tot of sauce ( 2t oil, redex fuel cleaner and valve protector fluid mixed ) to a tank full of petrol as before. No exhaust smoke seen.

 

Shortly the fuel system and engine  is due a service so will know if anything is "happening".

 

Mpg and cold starting seems same as normal.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Rich Griff

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

21 hours ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

What's the opinion on the higher octane fuel for the car, you notice any difference ?

Ran mine on it today.

I did on my wife's petrol Mini, more miles to the gallon on the same run.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Mine seems perkier, could be the placebo affect though. ?

[RottenRow]

It’s too early to tell what difference using E10 petrol makes to anything at the moment. It’s only been available for four days, and that is assuming that a fresh delivery of E10 has been made to your station into virtually empty tanks since then. More likely there will be a mixture of 5% and 10% in many petrol stations as old fuel is gradually used up. E10 can contain upto 10% ethanol, it doesn’t mean it has to contain 10%.

Several stations had already relabelled their pumps E10 at least a month ago in readiness but would have still been supplying E5 until at least the 1st September.

With regards to Super Unleaded E5, the Government has vowed that this will be available for the foreseeable future at stations that supply more than a certain amount of fuel in a week. I don’t have the details to hand but they are available on various classic car websites etc.

Brian.