Safety officers.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Maybe a safety coordinator would be a better title/description - someone to report problems to and get them addressed or discussed at committee as appropriate.  Also to take responsibility for promulgating any new rules/advice.  That's how I see my role...

 

I'll have a quiet word with someone doing something in an unsafe manner or obviously disregarding club rules but it's rare and it hasn't been necessary to be confrontational (yet!) - but I'd expect any senior club member to do the same.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

For the most part it's an invisible job, good to have people recognised as doing the role though, saves the rare occassions becoming a free for all or a shouting match.

[Cuban8]

Unless there were special circumstances, such as the owners of the land that a club uses having specific concerns and insisting on a representetive of their tennants taking on  a Safety Officer role for whatever reason, I don't see the need for most clubs............."beware individuals in hi-viz and covered in badges" as a dear friend of mine - sadly passed away recently - used to say.

[Jon H]

In my experience Safety Officers are self appointed walking clipboards with an exaggerated sense of their own importance. They adopt a 'do as i say not as i do' policy, but offer exemptions for friends and committee members. All the while, they enjoy collaring the regular club member to admonish them for insignificant infractions (real or invented) while remaining completely silent when the club kamikaze (there's always one) nearly wipes out everyone in the pilots box. This applies both to clubs and, sadly, model displays. 

 

 

As others have already pointed out, the safety of a flight is down to the pilot, but clearly a hive mind mentality should be employed across the field and help offered if something it spotted. 

 

10 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

Maybe a safety coordinator would be a better title/description - someone to report problems to and get them addressed or discussed at committee as appropriate.  Also to take responsibility for promulgating any new rules/advice.  That's how I see my role...

 

That sounds good to me. 

[extra slim]

I consider myself fortunate to be in a club of 20 like minded individuals, the club has two rules, 1) apply common sense, 2) see rule 1 !!

 

We all live in fear of losing our only important asset, the field. We all have an eye on each other, and being northern are not shy from interjecting with “wooahh, what are doing, you pillock!”, or “stand with him, and keep an eye on him”, or “you aint flying that like that” etc… no fist fights, no bickering, no debates.. it is actually very refreshing in this world, and we all help and support each other, and don’t fixate on cross words etc… we are there to enjoy ourselves, be safe and keep the field.. If anything endangers those principles, people speak up. We are careful with membership and allow only folk who can take it and dish it out in equal measures, and it appears to work. But I appreciate that not all clubs and memberships have the same cross section.

 

Just one example of how we handled an “issue” was when we had a very well to do, senior director of a multi national join. Really nice bloke, was competent with his foamy, but he kept getting into trouble and ditching his model in the surrounding fields. Bit of a safety issue, but more the fact the farmer may get miffed with him/us walking his crops repeatedly. Over a cuppa we told him we were doubling his membership, “why is nervously asked”.. “well, you are not only flying model planes, but you are also orienteering.. you should pay for your two hobbies”.. The point was taken and he asked for a “buddy” for a few weeks, without us having to take it any further.. he got it.. common sense… all happy campers.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

This is NOT a person attack on anyone here on this forum, but if the moderators wish to delete it I won't kick up a fuss.

 

I am only giving my personal experience here, the  title sounds a bit pompous  'Security officers' should be changed to security personnel or advice, as that is all it is, advice to people who might need it and aren't aware of the danger that they can be to themselves or others.

 a couple of instances in the last week,

1, A good experienced flyer had started his dle 20cc petrol engine, a helper was behind it holding it and he was standing within 50cm in front of the wooden prop revving it up.

A, any advice needed .

B  let him get on with it.

C, get the first aid kit ready.

 

 2, Yesterday a new club member just started flying in our club ( over 50 ) said that his new electric piper cub didn't have dual rate on the exaggerated ( my opinion ) elevator throws,

A, should I keep a safe distance when he takes off.

B  just see what happens .

C Have a look at why his elevator rates aren't adjustable.

 

3, A newly built plane with an old engine in it, the engine sounds a bit 'lumpy', do I have a look at why and help him out or just watch him fiddle with it for 1/2 an hour

 till he gives up and let him take off with the risk of dead sticking it into the grape vines ?.

A, watch and wait.

B ,try and help him.

C, be ready with a bin bag.

 

4, A repaired Alouette 2 with a jet turbine arrives to test it out, I can't see an extinguisher near him.

A, Get my sausages out of the car as there could ba a chance of a BBQ

B move my car away in case it catches fire

C ask him if I can help stand by with the clubs extinguisher.

D start it up down wind so not to upset the club members with it's possible black smoke.

 

 

 

 

[leccyflyer]

16 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

This is NOT a person attack on anyone here on this forum, but if the moderators wish to delete it I won't kick up a fuss.

 

I am only giving my personal experience here, the  title sounds a bit pompous  'Security officers' should be changed to security personnel or advice, as that is all it is, advice to people who might need it and aren't aware of the danger that they can be to themselves or others.

 a couple of instances in the last week,

1, A good experienced flyer had started his dle 20cc petrol engine, a helper was behind it holding it and he was standing within 50cm in front of the wooden prop revving it up.

A, any advice needed .

B  let him get on with it.

C, get the first aid kit ready.

 

 2, Yesterday a new club member just started flying in our club ( over 50 ) said that his new electric piper cub didn't have dual rate on the exaggerated ( my opinion ) elevator throws,

A, should I keep a safe distance when he takes off.

B  just see what happens .

C Have a look at why his elevator rates aren't adjustable.

 

3, A newly built plane with an old engine in it, the engine sounds a bit 'lumpy', do I have a look at why and help him out or just watch him fiddle with it for 1/2 an hour

 till he gives up and let him take off with the risk of dead sticking it into the grape vines ?.

A, watch and wait.

B ,try and help him.

C, be ready with a bin bag.

 

4, A repaired Alouette 2 with a jet turbine arrives to test it out, I can't see an extinguisher near him.

A, Get my sausages out of the car as there could ba a chance of a BBQ

B move my car away in case it catches fire

C ask him if I can help stand by with the clubs extinguisher.

D start it up down wind so not to upset the club members with it's possible black smoke.

 

 

 

 

Where have you seen the allegedly pompous term "Security Officers" used? I don't see it in this thread.

[Arthur Harris]

20 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

 

2, Yesterday a new club member just started flying in our club ( over 50 ) said that his new electric piper cub didn't have dual rate on the exaggerated ( my opinion ) elevator throws,

A, should I keep a safe distance when he takes off.

B  just see what happens .

C Have a look at why his elevator rates aren't adjustable.

 

I don't know of any rule that says we need to use dual rates or restrict our throws if we are comfortable with them. And couldn't all the instances you give be resolved with advice? Or a test flight by an experienced pilot? The club I fly with is very friendly, people very often ask other members for advice, and would get it unasked if they were doing something potentially dangerous. The club has rules, mostly to do with safety but some about not being a nuisance to third parties, no one minds being reminded of them as they are completely non-controversial. 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

54 minutes ago, Arthur Harris said:

don't know of any rule that says we need to use dual rates or restrict our throws if we are comfortable with them.

He wasn't happy with it, and as one of our club members was hovering around and fiddling with his radio ( Optic 6 )he did ask me to have a look, he was flying mode 1 on a mode 2 program, I re programmed it to mode one got him to switch the controller and elevator plugs over  ( channel 2 and 3 ) and let him get on with it,,,

[Don Fry]

I live in a club without safety officers. The environment can be lethal at times. We have 2, both basicly long term incompetent non learners. 
one flys biggish aircraft, the other a seemingly endless string of 40 size trainers. 
apart from the entertainment value, I don’t do any activity, but watch carefully and warily when they fly. 

[Arthur Harris]

45 minutes ago, Don Fry said:

I live in a club without safety officers. The environment can be lethal at times. We have 2, both basicly long term incompetent non learners. 
one flys biggish aircraft, the other a seemingly endless string of 40 size trainers. 
apart from the entertainment value, I don’t do any activity, but watch carefully and warily when they fly. 

Are they approachable and do they realise they are not very competent? They can be sanctioned by a club if it becomes necessary, but talking would be a better first option.

[john davidson 1]

We had a well respected by everyone member who would quickly point out any dodgy behaviour. He died a few years ago but now if anything appears to be iffy everyone says loudly "TAM WOULD NOT STAND FOR THAT"

[Cuban8]

2 hours ago, Don Fry said:

I live in a club without safety officers. The environment can be lethal at times. We have 2, both basicly long term incompetent non learners. 
one flys biggish aircraft, the other a seemingly endless string of 40 size trainers. 
apart from the entertainment value, I don’t do any activity, but watch carefully and warily when they fly. 

You don't need a Safety Officer to deal with unsafe or nuisance flyers. We've  had a few issues regarding flyers who perhaps were getting a bit long in the tooth and finding things a bit of a challenge, thereby putting others at risk - equally younger types pushing their luck from time to time and giving others 'the twitch' on the flight line.

Providing the club comittee is aware of the goings on then there should be enough scope in club rules to deal with such issues. No way should members feel uncomfortable or unsafe while at the field. No need to to have a court martial - usually a reminder or quiet word and offer of help does the trick.

 

[Don Fry]

1 hour ago, Cuban8 said:

You don't need a Safety Officer to deal with unsafe or nuisance flyers. We've  had a few issues regarding flyers who perhaps were getting a bit long in the tooth and finding things a bit of a challenge, thereby putting others at risk - equally younger types pushing their luck from time to time and giving others 'the twitch' on the flight line.

Providing the club comittee is aware of the goings on then there should be enough scope in club rules to deal with such issues. No way should members feel uncomfortable or unsafe while at the field. No need to to have a court martial - usually a reminder or quiet word and offer of help does the trick.

 

Arrrrrrrrrrr, but you first need a culture of safety. I live in France, and it’s not as rooted. Be grateful. Less deaths all round. I don’t think ( I’m sure) my fellow club members would not support my view. 

[Bruce Collinson]

We treat this whole issue as one of incidents, rather than safety per se.   Thus, it includes issues of reputation and public relations as well as safety.   For example, once in a blue moon we get a Joe Public at our gate, which is close to the highway, spouting off about noise.   The “rule” is that the senior member present engages as well as circumstances will permit then completes an incident report sheet.   This is referred to the committee for detailed investigation and follow up.

 

Safety issues and club rule infringements are recorded in the same way and it is the committeee which has the responsibility to investigate and then deal with the incident.   It doesn’t fall to a single member, whether or not wearing a hi-viz, and any follow up action is dignified by the whole committee, not one individual.   In practice the incident coordinator does the legwork but it has yet to be onerous.   I would commend this procedure.

 

BTC

[GrumpyGnome]

Well, if that works for your club, go for it..... many ways to skin this cat.

[Brian Cooper]

I am in two clubs, both of which operate with common sense as their cornerstone. 

There is no officious "clipboard" mentality. 

 

Operating from a bedrock of common sense, we then have fun. . . A LOT of fun. 

Having fun is, after all, what this game is all about. 

 

[Masher]

2 minutes ago, Brian Cooper said:

I am in two clubs, both of which operate with common sense as their cornerstone. 

There is no officious "clipboard" mentality. 

 

Operating from a bedrock of common sense, we then have fun. . . A LOT of fun. 

Having fun is, after all, what this game is all about. 

 

But as Andy Symons once said to me.... in a club of 50 members,  there are 50 variations of common sense..... or something like that. 

 

[Jon H]

36 minutes ago, Masher said:

common sense.....

 

What is this? i dont recall ever seeing it before. 

[ken anderson.]

Andy as usual has nailed it ..💯

Ken Anderson...ne...1 common sense dept

[GrumpyGnome]

Gosh, so much vitriol.

 

I don't have a clipboard, or any hi-vis clothing, and I don't think I'm officious.  I don't go looking for reasons to chastise club members, but I will sometimes have a quiet word about not standing with other fliers, or taxiing in the pits.

 

Generally, we're pretty good at self-regulating via the medium of banter.

 

In addition to the few responsibilities I outlined above, I also do our risk assessments when needed.

[Flyboy3]

As original poster, I think I should comment. As with most clubs I assume, all  our fliers are experienced and we have no concerns with thier flying ability or their models at any time. If a newcomer brings a model down, our “safety officer” will ask if he can check over the model for i.e. loose engine bolts, unsecured battery, correct control surfaces etc. other than the occasional shout when a model may move to an unsafe place in the air, there is not much to be done.

          Safety rules re parking, pilot box use, no fly areas etc are given in writing to newcomers.  Cheers

[Arthur Harris]

2 hours ago, Flyboy3 said:

As original poster, I think I should comment. As with most clubs I assume, all  our fliers are experienced and we have no concerns with thier flying ability or their models at any time. If a newcomer brings a model down, our “safety officer” will ask if he can check over the model for i.e. loose engine bolts, unsecured battery, correct control surfaces etc. other than the occasional shout when a model may move to an unsafe place in the air, there is not much to be done.

          Safety rules re parking, pilot box use, no fly areas etc are given in writing to newcomers.  Cheers

By "newcomer" do you mean a new member or new prospective member ie someone who turns up with an ARTF and is inquiring about membership? In my club, all members are expected to have completed Part A at least, which will have been confirmed when they completed their application, so there is a reasonable assumption they already know about safety and are reasonably proficient.

[Flyboy3]

Hi Arthur, we haven’t come across this at the moment, but yes all new comers wanting to learn to fly are accepted. During the learning time he/she would be expected to reach the A cert, until then an experienced flyer will be at his/ her side at ALL times. Not all clubs do this I am informed.  Cheers

[GrumpyGnome]

8 hours ago, Arthur Harris said:

By "newcomer" do you mean a new member or new prospective member ie someone who turns up with an ARTF and is inquiring about membership? In my club, all members are expected to have completed Part A at least, which will have been confirmed when they completed their application, so there is a reasonable assumption they already know about safety and are reasonably proficient.

 

So no complete beginners? What do you do with those?

 

(Many of my club, including some who gave flown for many years would be excluded....)