Smart phones; a discussion

[Geoff S]

1 hour ago, Outrunner said:

Land line days are numbered as BT are phasing them out and a home phone will be via IP so a power source will be required.

 

The last 300 metres of our internet connection is copper anyway.  I switch off the router every night and we don't always get a mobile signal indoors.  I'm quite sure that, at present, BT can't impose internet enabled phones if you refuse it.  Things have come a long way since it was almost impossible to get an exclusive phone line unless you were a business user.  We had a shared line for ages - it was rarely a problem then; it would be now.

 

I think, like Peter Jenkins, we're setting ourselves up for a massive problem. There's an old saying - don't put all your eggs in one basket and that's what we seem to be doing and making ourselves very vulnerable to either malicious or weather related attacks. 

[Outrunner]

59 minutes ago, Geoff S said:

The last 300 metres of our internet connection is copper anyway.  I switch off the router every night and we don't always get a mobile signal indoors.  I'm quite sure that, at present, BT can't impose internet enabled phones if you refuse it.  Things have come a long way since it was almost impossible to get an exclusive phone line unless you were a business user.  We had a shared line for ages - it was rarely a problem then; it would be now.

Happening sooner than I thought BT website 2025 apparently 

[MattyB]

3 hours ago, Peter Jenkins said:

Yes, so I understand.  A retrograde step in my view and increases the impsct of a msjor cyber attack.  The Russians have a track record in this type of attack so I hope GCHQ has the antidote to hand when this happens in about 8-10 years time.

PSTN landlines are due to go much sooner than that - Dec 2025 is the date in most cases…

 

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/consumer-issues/changes-to-landline-telephones/

 

Interestingly when our Plusnet broadband last reached the end of its term, our renewal was dramatically cheaper (~£20 a month less) if we gave up the landline which we were only tol happy to do. If your provider is not offering you the option to do this yet, I’d consider moving as there are probably decent savings to be had if you no longer want or need the copper wire.

[Engine Doctor]

3 hours ago, Peter Jenkins said:

Yes, so I understand.  A retrograde step in my view and increases the impsct of a msjor cyber attack.  The Russians have a track record in this type of attack so I hope GCHQ has the antidote to hand when this happens in about 8-10 years time.

Dont worry . In the event of a cyber attack we can all rest assured that our illustrious leaders have the most up to date comunication supplied by someone like Fujitsu 🥴 or another competent trustworthy supplier. 😉

Why am I not filled with confidence?

[GrumpyGnome]

I believe digital/voip rollout is being reviewed as some personal alarms won't work if the router loses power...... probably only a delay while they work something out.

 

We had an 19 hour power cut last week - despite not being glued to my phone, I really missed Internet access. It wouldn't have been as bad if I hadn't managed to use most of my data allowance using my phone as a hotspot in my workshop.

 

Sorry, rambling!

 

Sadly, demise of landlines is inevitable. We'll still be reliant on wires between wooden poles though. In the last few months, fibre broadband has arrived in our little (under 200 homes) village so we've had loads of Openreach vans. Amongst all the high-tech equipment is a pole that they hold under the wires to make sure they're not too low....

[Nik Harrison]

Geoff,  Why do you switch your router off overnight?

[Geoff S]

19 minutes ago, Nik Harrison said:

Geoff,  Why do you switch your router off overnight?

 

I simply don't like leaving electrical equipment on when not needed. I never have. When I was working, I always switched any equipment I was using off before I went home - oscilloscope, signal generators, logic analyser etc.  I just do the same now.  The router power supply is plugged into the same mains distribution unit as my PC, so gets switched off when I switch off my PC in the evening.  In any case, we probably don't get wifi from the router upstairs anyway - wifi doesn't penetrate thick stone walls very well. 

Edited January 28 by Geoff S

[Peter Jenkins]

Geoff, my router supplier gold me not to turn the router off overnight as that'svwhen they upgrade the software router.

 

You may want to check your router's sofware standard with what your supplier tells you is the latest version just in case your router has not been updated.

[EvilC57]

2 hours ago, Geoff S said:

 

I simply don't like leaving electrical equipment on when not needed. I never have. When I was working, I always switched any equipment I was using off before I went home - oscilloscope, signal generators, logic analyser etc.  I just do the same now.  The router power supply is plugged into the same mains distribution unit as my PC, so gets switched off when I switch off my PC in the evening.  In any case, we probably don't get wifi from the router upstairs anyway - wifi doesn't penetrate thick stone walls very well. 

My understanding too is that it’s not a good idea because even when you are not actively using the router there is system ‘handshaking’ taking place, and if switched off for long periods this cannot happen, which can lead to your ISP thinking that your data use is lower than it actually is, and throttling (slowing down) your broadband speeds accordingly. Not to mention missing overnight router updates as Peter J says.

 

My ISP (Virgin) has said though, that it’s a good idea to switch off for 30 seconds or reboot the router about once a month to clear out the cache, which can speed things up.

Edited January 28 by EvilC57

[Geoff S]

2 hours ago, Peter Jenkins said:

Geoff, my router supplier gold me not to turn the router off overnight as that'svwhen they upgrade the software router.

 

You may want to check your router's sofware standard with what your supplier tells you is the latest version just in case your router has not been updated.

 

The router's working fine as it is.  I have adequate data speed for both my wife and me to watch any video streams separately and simultaneously.  The only s/w updates I want are those relating to security.  I've written enough s/w in my time to be aware of the temptation to do just a bit more for personal amusement and satisfaction to be wary of it in commercial environments.  I use an ancient version of MS Office Pro (97) which does more than all I need, and an equally ancient version of Photoshop likewise.

 

As hardware gets more powerful, much of the power is absorbed by programmers and data hungry high level s/w packages.  I only use what I need or what I find useful. 

 

 

[Peter Jenkins]

21 minutes ago, Geoff S said:

 

The router's working fine as it is.  I have adequate data speed for both my wife and me to watch any video streams separately and simultaneously.  The only s/w updates I want are those relating to security.  I've written enough s/w in my time to be aware of the temptation to do just a bit more for personal amusement and satisfaction to be wary of it in commercial environments.  I use an ancient version of MS Office Pro (97) which does more than all I need, and an equally ancient version of Photoshop likewise.

 

As hardware gets more powerful, much of the power is absorbed by programmers and data hungry high level s/w packages.  I only use what I need or what I find useful. 

 

 

Lot of truth in that Geoff.  I still think Word Perfect 5.1 was the best word processing package I ever used.  Lightning fast and the reveal/hid codes trick allowed you to sort formatting problems almost as quickly as the WYSISYG of Word,  Only issue is, there is no way of knowing when it's a security patch or one of the more fanciful ones!

[Geoff S]

I think my wife used a Word Perfect version at one time. I never did. The first dedicated editor/word processor I ever used was Wordstar and that was before mice were invented (the computer version, that is, not the mammal!) and cursor navigation was all by keyboard control characters.  I wrote all my early Assembler s/w on it.

[EvilC57]

I used WordPerfect 5.1 at work throughout the 1990s, and really liked it because of the controllability it had.

Edited January 28 by EvilC57

[Dickw]

Word Perfect, Wordstar - ah! memories.

OK, anyone remember Aston Tate's 'Framework' - spreadsheet, word processor and database all in one?

 

Dick

[leccyflyer]

Yep, used both WordStar and then WordPerfect - which was the best word processor around at time, powerful, quick and bulletproof - only came to MS Word much later.

[EvilC57]

30 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

Yep, used both WordStar and then WordPerfect - which was the best word processor around at time, powerful, quick and bulletproof - only came to MS Word much later.

Went from WP 5.1 to MS Word via Lotus Ami Pro (remember that?), which I remember as being very unstable with frequent lockups and crashes. Used Lotus 123 before Excel as well.

[Bob Burton]

23 hours ago, Peter Jenkins said:

the reveal/hid codes trick allowed you to sort formatting problems almost as quickly as the WYSISYG of Word

Word has this feature too so you can have the best of both worlds

[Arthur Harris]

On 27/01/2024 at 06:49, GrumpyGnome said:

We had an 19 hour power cut last week - despite not being glued to my phone, I really missed Internet access. It wouldn't have been as bad if I hadn't managed to use most of my data allowance using my phone as a hotspot in my workshop.

I was in my 30s when computers were introduced to our offices, and we had teaching sessions to learn what mice and icons were. A few rare and senior management had car phones with handsets the size of house bricks. I can remember us saying we would never need that stuff. A few years later I bought a "dumb" phone which I never switched on as it was "only for emergencies". How times have changed. I now get ever so frustrated someone in the family doesn't have their phone with them, and although I don't rely on the internet, I like it. Someone mentioned the Arado bomber recently (I didn't know there was such a thing and I thought I knew a bit about aviation history), I couldn't wait to get on Google, YouTube and Wikipedia to get some info.

 

[Dickw]

7 minutes ago, Arthur Harris said:

I was in my 30s when computers were introduced to our offices, ................

 

The first computers in our office were dumb terminals linked to the head office main-frame.

Eventually a single PC was installed and I learned a lot about it, including using MS-DOS, as I began to make use of it. One day I suggested to a senior manager that we could really do with another PC. His reply - "But that one is not full yet".  🤣

 

Dick

[Arthur Harris]

21 minutes ago, Dickw said:

The first computers in our office were dumb terminals linked to the head office main-frame.

Eventually a single PC was installed and I learned a lot about it, including using MS-DOS, as I began to make use of it. One day I suggested to a senior manager that we could really do with another PC. His reply - "But that one is not full yet".  🤣

 

Dick

For a few months we only had one PC as well, and the secretary installed a password so other people couldn't log on and "interfere" with her work.  The idea that PCs could network and share information took a little while to catch on.

TBF, there was a lot to learn- I remember a frequent message that said, "Do you want to see this warning again Y/N?" Well, it's a puzzle- I'd rather never see it again, that's for sure, but if it is about something important, perhaps I should....

Edited January 29 by Arthur Harris

[Geoff S]

1 hour ago, Arthur Harris said:

I was in my 30s when computers were introduced to our offices, and we had teaching sessions to learn what mice and icons were. A few rare and senior management had car phones with handsets the size of house bricks. I can remember us saying we would never need that stuff. A few years later I bought a "dumb" phone which I never switched on as it was "only for emergencies". How times have changed. I now get ever so frustrated someone in the family doesn't have their phone with them, and although I don't rely on the internet, I like it. Someone mentioned the Arado bomber recently (I didn't know there was such a thing and I thought I knew a bit about aviation history), I couldn't wait to get on Google, YouTube and Wikipedia to get some info.

 

 

I first got involved with computers when they were made of discrete germanium transistors (GET103 mostly), had actual toroidal magnetic core store, main storage was a magnetic drum with multiple heads, input was usually via 80 column cards and output was either a line printer, punched cards, or 1" tape.  No vdu, no keyboard but tons of switches and lights on the front.  When I went for an interview for the job, I had to 'google' the local library to find out exactly what a computer was and what it did.  GEC manufactured the ICT 1301 for ICT itself.  The machine even had hardware sterling (that's £sd) multiply and divide by 10 built-in. Registers were binary coded decimal with 1 2 4 8 lines.  And it ran with a staggering 1mhz clock speed.  We spent our days with eyes glued to huge Tektronix oscilloscopes, fault-finding.

 

There were some clever blokes on final test with me. One played the clarinet and wrote a program that played Mozart's Clarinet Concerto as well as Christmas carols in 4 parts played on 4 different machines (we had about 10 on the shop floor at a time and it was probably the most expensive musical instrument in the UK).  This was in the early 60s (I was in my early 20s) and it was (mostly) a lot of fun being at the cutting edge. 

 

So you can see why I get a bit blasé about the latest gadgets and can take it or leave it - I've been through it all several times over the last 60 years 🙂

[PatMc]

Anyone remember the BT Merlin's "Tonto" (Rebadged version of ICL's OPD) ?

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Used Sinclair Microdrives IIRC

[PatMc]

28 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

Used Sinclair Microdrives IIRC

That's the one. They came with a built in very basic word processer & spread sheet.

I rescued & repaired a faulty Tonto + dot matrix printer from the store's skip. At the time we had monthly one to one progress reports with the level 2. He was a pretentious PITA who thought he was a whiz with statistics. I always printed of my report together with  a graph showing the key performance figures for my team over the month. I was the only manager who made a printed report but he never asked for a copy.  

On a poor performance month I printed the graph with Y axis from zero up, on a good month I printed only the top part of the graph but over the same size paper.  Result gave relatively flat curve on poor months but nice rising curve on good ones.

He never twigged.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Got told yesterday 3G phones to be phased out this year, would the sim card in my phone work with a 4G phone ?