First aircraft

[DAVE BARBER 1]

Hi 

Although not new to RC (I used to build and operate model boats on 27Mhz) I have become interested in RC Aircraft following a Christmas present of a drone a few years ago (not flown much because when I aren't working it is either too dark or too windy!!

 

I subscribe to RCME and read from cover to cover and am beginning to understand some of the terms used but I have a few questions which I would like to get my head around. I am intending to go electric power.

 

1) I understand that the best plane to use as a Trainer is a high wing - but what size?

2) Is it better to learn with single engine or is it just as easy with twin

3 (the big question) WHY

 

I have seen the XFLY P68 and wondered if that would be a suitable starter plane?

 

Thanks in advance

Dave

[toto]

Hi Dave and welcome to the forum.

 

I am relatively new to RC myself so I'm no expert I'm afraid but very interested in the question that you pose.

 

I think ( only think ) that I know the answers that you will probably get to the above.

 

The high wing bit is definitely correct. I don't think you will get any argument there. And I would also agree ( based on my own experience to date ) that going electric initially at least is also the way to go. In my opinion electric is easier to set up than IC but some will counter that opinion. I think IC engines are a learning curve of their own that you can do without to start with at least, however, maybe you have a more mechanically astute mind than mine.

 

The size ...... some say the bigger the better on account of more stability in the air. I tend to agree but can't offer the technical reasoning behind it in a way that explains it through facts. I'd say anything from a out a 1300mm to 1800mm wingspan would be good an offer a reasonable choice of models that ..... might not be strictly considered as trainers ..... but most would agree are within the correct sensible limitations.

 

Would I pick  twin engined model as  a trainer ....... well ........ I have three ARTF twins ....... 2 x twin otters which are very similar to the twin that you mention in terms of model characteristics only slightly bigger. I also have a Beechcraft Barron, again a twin of about 1600mm in span.

 

I have put them all on the back burner in favour of single engine high wings all of which you can see on this forum. I think your suggested twin may well be OK ( I'll let the other more experienced answer that part ) I think it is classed as a reasonably stable model,that's not too overwhelming in terms of performance but in all honesty would suggest that you start with a single engined model just for simplicity. 

 

I am absolutely gagging to get my Xfly Twin Otter ( a foamie ) in the air but have set myself a target of at least achieving solo flying status on my single engined models prior to letting myself do it.

 

There is nobody as keen to progress to more exoticmodels than me so I get your pain but onething I have learned in abundance so far on my learning journey is ...... patience ..... and trying to keep my sensible head on ....... its hard.

 

I hope you get some better advice based on more technically appropriate facts ...... I'm sure you will and I'll be interested to follow what's said.

 

Good luck with your journey .... andmost of all ..... enjoy

 

Toto 

Edited February 11 by toto

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Welcome to the forum Dave, for a beginner one of these Epp electric planes / gliders is the way to go, better still are the Multiplex ones with the motor in the nose,

 or a fun cub, there are plenty on the market.

[GrumpyGnome]

8 hours ago, DAVE BARBER 1 said:

Hi 

Although not new to RC (I used to build and operate model boats on 27Mhz) I have become interested in RC Aircraft following a Christmas present of a drone a few years ago (not flown much because when I aren't working it is either too dark or too windy!!

 

I subscribe to RCME and read from cover to cover and am beginning to understand some of the terms used but I have a few questions which I would like to get my head around. I am intending to go electric power.

 

1) I understand that the best plane to use as a Trainer is a high wing - but what size?

2) Is it better to learn with single engine or is it just as easy with twin

3 (the big question) WHY

 

I have seen the XFLY P68 and wondered if that would be a suitable starter plane?

 

Thanks in advance

Dave

In answer to your questions.....

 

1. Yes, high winged aeroplanes are inherently more stable. My simplistic view is that's because most if the weight is below the wing but aerodynamicists could offer a more scientific reason. Some say size doesn't matter, but it does! Too small and you'll need to keep the model closer in flight, and, generally, it'll be limited to light winds; too large and it'll cost more, be harder to transport, and carry more mass so may be more easily damaged. For electric, IN MY OPINION, if you are going electric 3S or 4S power is the way to go; if you're going IC a .46 (7.5cc) is the 'sweet spot'

 

2. An electric twin is as easy to operate as a single, but it's more complex, with more to go wrong. I've never had an ic twin but I suspect you need a degree of ic experience to set up and operate 

 

3. Why? I assume you mean why electric? You can just charge your batteries, turn up and fly; there is no engine to tune; you may have a larger choice of flying sites/times

 

These are all personal opinions and are generalisations.

 

My advice, as ever, is to get in touch with your local club. They can help you choose a model, and teach you to fly it safely. In the meantime, head over to the BMFA website (https://bmfa.org/) and have a look - specifically at the legal requirements.

 

Good luck, keep asking questions.

 

 

[leccyflyer]

Hi Dave

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

The best advice I can give is to find a local club and head along there for a chat at the first opportunity, so that you can suss out their recommendations for beginners. Your best chance of success in the hobby isn't just about the aeroplane, it's mostly about securing the best practical hands-on advice available from a dedicated instructor. That is the most important thing.

 

To answer your question about the XFly P-68, it's not ideal for a first model at less than 1m wingspan and there is no advantage in starting on a twin -whilst increased complexity is not desirable in your first steps. The looks of a first trainer are not at all important - the role of that model is to learn to fly and it does need to be a stable high winger, I would not consider the XFly-P68 as being a suitable first model.

 

The recommendation of a Bixler type model is a good one - they have a good reputation for stability and ease of operation. The use of relatively small, simple electric drive systems is an advantage for those first steps and getting to grips with operating the technology with relatively inexpensive batteries.  I would not recommend a large, complex and expensive electric power system for a first model. You will want to consider whether the model is best equipped with an undercarriage -again dependent on where you will be flying the model. Part of your training will be in learning to take off and land and those are different in the case of hand launched models without wheels.

 

Best of luck and enjoy the journey

 

Brian

[PDB]

7 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

Your best chance of success in the hobby isn't just about the aeroplane, it's mostly about securing the best practical hands-on advice available from a dedicated instructor. That is the most important thing.

 

As a recent newbie this is the route I followed and made getting to solo flying a lot quicker and simpler.

[EarlyBird]

Bixler 3

 

H-King Bixler 3 Glider 1500mm PNF Plane | HobbyKing

 

[Murat Kece 1]

I and two other friends learned flying with SKYSURFER - https://hobbyking.com/en_us/h-king-bixler-2-pnf-glider-epo-1500mm-59.html and 

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/volantex-757-7-ranger-1600mm-fpv-glider-63-pnf.html

 

[GrumpyGnome]

The xfly P68 is a very attractive model, but personally I wouldn't recommend it for an absolute beginner.... with 2 kotors and escs packed into a relatively small airframe, it's probably going to have a relatively high wing loading and/or be fragile when the inevitable happens!

 

The Bixler-type models are likely to be a better choice.

 

I'd still recommend visiting a club. My own club for exmple, has 2 dedicated electric trainers that we'll start people off on before they buy what may be unsuitable...

[Martin Fraser]

Welcome to the forum Dave,

 

All good advice above there. If your budget will stretch - I've been buddy-box flying with a learner at our club and have been quite impressed with his Xfly Glastar. It flies well on a 3s 2200mHa lipo and will take a 4s pack for sport flying. Nice big wheels and there seems to be a good spares backup.  Have fun with whatever you decide on.

 

Cheers, Marty

P.S. No connection with MSL.

 

Xfly Glastar V2 Bush/Trainer 1233mm Wingspan PNP XF105PV2, Model Shop Leeds

 

[Jon H]

You can learn on any model you like to be fair. If you wanted, you could learn using a 50 grand jet but i wouldnt recommend it. 

 

For me the most important factor is the support and training you are going to receive. Will you be going it alone in a park or friendly farmers field? Or are you going to join a club and be taught using a buddy box and all that? 

 

I would recommend the latter, and with that you can skip some of the more basic models as the instructor will get the thing in the air and then hand it over to you. Once you are suitably terrified, he will land it for you. As your skills improve you take on these other aspects of the flight. If you go it alone you are at the helm from the first instant and might even manage to crash before you have left the ground. If the model is a hand launched affair then you are quite literally throwing it into the unknown. As a result you have to pick an extremely basic/stable model which will ultimately not last long as you will out grow its capabilities quite fast...assuming it lives that long as takeoff/hand launch related crashes could wipe it out before you get anywhere. This is why i would strongly recommend a club. 

 

I would avoid twins of any flavour for the reasons already mentioned by the others, but the high wing/low wing argument is a little fuzzy these days. if someone showed up asking me to train them, and had the same 82inch span 150 4 stroke powered Spacewalker that i have it would be no bother as the thing is a big floaty pussycat which (due to its size) is very easy to see at a distance and not too phased by the wind. Given you are looking for something smaller i am not suggesting you rush out an buy one, just that blanketing all low wing models as difficult to learn with is not an accurate statement as many are very well behaved. Cap232 however, or a Spitfire, not recommended! 

[Frank Skilbeck]

The main problem with something like the P68 is that it won't be very resiliant to the "occassional" heavy arrival that may occur when you're first learning to land. The only twin I've ever used as a trainer is the venerable Multiplex Twin Star and they are pretty good in that roll.

but I'd recommend you pop along to your local club before you purchase anything, they may even have a club trainer you can have a go on.

[Jonathan M]

It's not so much about the right trainer model, it's all to do with the right instruction. Start by finding a suitable local club, preferably with their own trainers and get a taste of flying under instruction.

 

Fixed wing models aren't like drones - they need to be taken off, flown and landed in a very different way, which takes a good deal of time to learn.

 

Even pilots of full-size aircraft find it pretty difficult at first.

[Andy Gates]

Hi Dave & welcome,

 

Totally agree with others above, 1st step is finding a club and trainer you can work with.

 

If you read one of Toto's threads on here, he had a poor start with unreliable training and suitable models which left him frustrated with inconsistent results, not really anyone's fault but just they way things go sometimes.

 

Speak to your trainer after a few goes on the sticks and see what machine they recommend.

 

To me, bigger the model the better until it gets unmanageable.

Aim for 1500mm (52" ish) to 2000mm (72"ish). They are normally steadier, can handle wind easier and are easier to see.

 

I have trained using 48" all the way up to 78" including a twin.

Try and keep it simple as there is a quite steep learning curve.

Most of all have fun!

[DAVE BARBER 1]

I have looked at the suggestions and I see they are pushers rather than pullers.

 

Does this make the handling any different?

[Jon H]

17 minutes ago, DAVE BARBER 1 said:

I have looked at the suggestions and I see they are pushers rather than pullers.

 

Does this make the handling any different?

 

Not enough that a beginner would notice, but it can save you a few busted propellers. 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

4 hours ago, DAVE BARBER 1 said:

I have looked at the suggestions and I see they are pushers rather than pullers.

 

Does this make the handling any different?

Yes, the bixlers can dive into the ground if it isn't launched properly with too much power due to the configuration of the motor, no difference in the air though.

[Halsey]

The X-fly Tasman 1500 bush trainer gets my vote, if your budget can stretch to it, but a good club and a good patient instructor(s) are the most important considerations - I'm very lucky to have both - this really is the most important factor to achieving success.

 

Have fun 

 

J

[Murat Kece 1]

On 12/02/2024 at 12:29, DAVE BARBER 1 said:

I have looked at the suggestions and I see they are pushers rather than pullers.

 

Does this make the handling any different?

As a beginner one gets a few crashes (I did).. Having the motor and prop at the back saved money and hassle. I beefed up the nose with some carbon strips but left a crumble section to absorb the crash loads on my Bixler/Sky Surfer. The repairs were much easier. I did not change any motor or props at all.

Edited February 23 by Murat Kece 1

[Cuban8]

All good advice and as one would expect, and naturally a little variation on a basic theme given individuals' preferences and past experience. The very best and most important thing to take on board at this stage is to take the very simple and free step of going to have a chat with a local club. Not because we're trying to push memberships per se, but quite simply, you'll be able to see first hand a number of models being flown in one place and have at your fingertips a wealth of knowledge and experience that can be easily accessed. If you're lucky to have several within a reasonable distance, try them all and see which suits you best. Clubs do differ in character and MO and you may well feel happier with one rather than another.

Even simple trainer models look deceptively easy to fly in experienced hands, but they are not at all straightforward for the complete beginner. Availing yourself of the help from a club will make the whole learning experience so much more enjoyable and less stressful and WILL prevent you from falling into the many traps that are waiting for the beginner to fall into.

Good luck and welcome to the hobby.

Edited February 23 by Cuban8

[Engine Doctor]

As most say  find a local club . Go along and have a chat with a few of the members/pilots and instructors if present. Make sure you get on with the instructor as this is as important as type of model etc .

Dont try to run before you can walk as  any model appears very easy to fly in experienced hands . The slower flying models are IMO better to start with for us older flyers  when learning to fly as it gives our brains time to catch up ☺️ but even high wing trainers can be very different in terms of speed and stability. Ive tuaght many to fly over the years and usually the younger you are the quicker you learn . Im not a fan of foam models although they often offer a quick way to get flying and some are really good models to teach on ; again speak to an instructor as they will have a better idea of whats best for you possibly after a trial flight on a buddy system.

A club instructor will also offer advice on what make of radio is best to offer you Buddy flying while learning. Dont make the mistake of talking to a model shop until you have spoken to  a club / instructor as many of the assistants simply have no idea about teaching and will often sell you whatever takes you fancy. Its so annoying to see someone turn up with totally inappropriate model etc sold to them by a model shop .

Welcome to the hobby and hope you enjoy it.