The future of ic engines in our hobby.

[Eric Robson]

1 hour ago, leccyflyer said:

One other aspect which hasn't really been addressed it that there does seem to be a bit of a nostalgic uptick in the use of small diesel engines, though I accept that could conceivably just be my perception since I'm noticing them more, having brought a few back into use. However there's certainly a number of FB groups dedicated to vintage diesel usage. I've kept a very small number of glow engines, for purely sentimental reasons, but now have more small diesels than glows and a sum total of about half a dozen small engines. The fuel is ruinously expensive and they are undoubtedly messy, but I'm hoping to have my first diesel powered flights later in the spring when the weather improves a bit- since I'm far too nesh to be bothering with diesels in the freezing cold of winter.

There has been a big upsurge in vintage diesel powered models in our club at least 7 members are active in that field with more showing interest. The fuel is expensive but most use about a teaspoon full. It doesn't appeal to me, done it in the past and it is not great for warbirds although the exhausts are small or non existent.  

[GaryW]

48 minutes ago, kevin b said:

 

Does she have a sister ?   ☺️

 2 actually and both are married

[John Stainforth]

IC glow engines are far from extinct. OS and Saito still carry a reasonable range in the useful sizes. Personally, I think the smell, mess and noise are all exaggerated, as is the cost of the fuel. In most of the clubs I have visited, members have been very happy to retreat to a nearby pub and spend more on beer (which, let's face it, is very bad value for money) than they have on glow fuel at the flying field.

[Stuart Z]

Thanks. As are Force and SH 2T engines and no doubt a wide range of second hand engines.  You are also right that people spend more in the social arena so the cost of fuel is often insignificant.

[stu knowles]

Personally, I think that we are a long was from seeing the end of Glow engines.  I do have a couple of foamy 3 cell lipo models but the majority are larger petrol powered.  Models between 48" and 80" are still glow powered as are floatplanes.  I have no desire to move to larger electric power, I enjoy operating engines and getting the best out of them. I rarely suffer from unexpected engine stoppages.  Perhaps oddly, I have never taken to four stroke glow motors, don't particularly like the sound  although the absence of a silencer does make them attractive in scale models.

 

 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Unless they get banned I.C is here to stay, people enjoy them, myself included.

[richard dalgleish]

We should have less of these doom and gloom topics, IC engines and building seem to be on the up from what i can see. 

Edited April 3 by richard dalgleish

[Stuart Z]

Agreed, the hobby will evolve and people will choose what they want!  Important though that people understand options.  It seems nowadays, people follow the shortest/ easiest route and don’t learn what make the important choices,  now is the time to carry forward skills of today.  All too easy to follow the crowd .  Skills lost will remain lost.  So sad.

 

[Engine Doctor]

Just my view but I liken those in our hobby that denegrate the ic models as similar in outlook to those who have moved to EV's. They moan about the cost of fuel, tax etc . Shortly after they appear at the field in a new EV having spent thousands of £'s to save a few £'s when their previous car  was perfectly ok and in many cases not that old ! A  few pounds on fuel and tax is a tiny fraction of what they spent  on the new overpriced low range and probably lower quality car and the soon to be introduced tax system and the high cost of  public charging.

They ovbviously didnt go to school on arithmatic day 😊.

Similar story with ic models, unhappy with the cost of fuel , the noise and poĺution etc. Next week turn up with a new electric ARTF with a new batch of expensive batteries costing hundreds of £'s and transported half way round the world with associated tons of pollution ! 

Just admit it that most of these  so called green warriors just want the latest model ,number plate and for the moment free tax or new model.....why? Because they can. If they really cared about pollution then they would use their existing cars and models until they wear out then change.

Its all part of our " must have now " culture. 

Will I go all electric inc EV? No not until I NEED a replacement and if I'm still around perhaps all the lies and hype around electric power just might have died down.

Long live IC power.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

I met one of my 'younger' friends ( an old customer) that I gave an old biplane with a cox in it, he said that where he was flying there was an upsurge of small glows, so much so the main model fuel company in France ( Labema) had come out with a special fuel for them.

[Stuart Z]

And

I read recently that the cost to the Fire Brigade was something like 5 times committed time of EB fires than electric fires in EVs.  Is this the unseen cost of electric?

 

It will all work it’s way through society but I wonder at what real cost?????

 

Mad world, glad I’m heading to end of the trip rather than the beginning! 

 

 

[kevin b]

1 hour ago, richard dalgleish said:

We should have less of these doom and gloom topics, IC engines and building seem to be on the up from what i can see. 

This was not intended to be a doom and gloom topic.

I have been most enlightened by some of the comments and the positive attitudes of most of the members.

At least the topic is relevant to the hobby that the forum is dedicated to.

What is the point of a forum if you don't discuss matters of common interest ?

With regards to ic engines and building being " on the up", I would sincerely like to believe so however I don't think the figures available actually bear that out.

It would probably be true to say that people are building more, rather than more people are building. Mainly due to the poor flying conditions over the last couple of years.

There again that is only my opinion and I would be quite happy to be proven wrong.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

For me, the increase in lipo costs has given a little boost to I.C.

[Brian Cooper]

I.C. engines will be a significant part of the hobby for as long as I.C. engines are produced and, very importantly, there are spares parts readily available.  

 

Obsolete engines are still giving good service but they will slowly die out as replacement parts become unobtainable. 

[911hillclimber]

Great we all have a choice!

This conversation is a direct parallel to the car industry, some will take EV and not.

I'm sure the supply (as opposed to cost) of suitable fuels will govern what happens.

 

If fuel stops then switch to electric and keep flying, enjoying all aspects of this hobby and all is well.

 

IC vehicles will slowly die out, 20 years? The fuel for both will become the issue if/when electric becomes the best seller, the fuel will be the issue before the vehicles are worn out I suspect.

Mind you, supply of electricity will also dominate the world too!

 

We will all revert to rubber free flight....(just joking)

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

OMG, here we go off the subject of IC MODEL engines,,,

[Rich Griff]

In a recent TV cookery program it was said that 80 percent home made alcohol was/is methanol ?

 

Takes lots of sugar to make it I was told, gives me a headache, absorbs moisture like billyo and by God the best cleaner/degreaser I have used apart from carbontet .

 

I treat the stuff with very real caution !

 

Still not plucked up enough courage to put some in the moped ! 🤓

 

 

 

 

[Shaun Walsh]

1 hour ago, Rich Griff said:

In a recent TV cookery program it was said that 80 percent home made alcohol was/is methanol ?

 

Takes lots of sugar to make it I was told, gives me a headache, absorbs moisture like billyo and by God the best cleaner/degreaser I have used apart from carbontet .

 

I treat the stuff with very real caution !

 

Still not plucked up enough courage to put some in the moped ! 🤓

 

 

 

 

If that was the case all home brewers would be blind or dead!

[Cuban8]

6 hours ago, Rich Griff said:

In a recent TV cookery program it was said that 80 percent home made alcohol was/is methanol ?

 

Takes lots of sugar to make it I was told, gives me a headache, absorbs moisture like billyo and by God the best cleaner/degreaser I have used apart from carbontet .

 

I treat the stuff with very real caution !

 

Still not plucked up enough courage to put some in the moped ! 🤓

 

 

 

 

Surely that was supposed to read 'was/is Ethanol'? Any fans of the Brilliant wartime police detective series 'Foyles War' will recall the repercussions of bootleg booze being badly  produced for the black market in one episode, and the resultant selling under the counter of poisonous methanol rather than the drinkable good stuff

[Rich Griff]

Only as a fuel NOT as a drink, a FUEL.

 

It was mentioned on a tv program so add plenty of seasoning 

[Rich Griff]

If I remember correctly I was told that wartime spitfire compasses contained s liquid, which was drunk.

 

Purple meths was also drunk 

 

The stuff I have which I have been told NOT TO DRINK can be used as a basis for a FUEL, but needs lots of sugar to make it, as a FUEL.

 

Even cooking brandy will burn eg xmas pud etc..

 

If you believe "whisky galore" , it will make a truck petrol engine "perform"...

 

Anyways, alcohol fuels have been used for some time.....

 

 

[kevin b]

Excuse me chaps, but aren't we supposed to be talking about model aeroplanes and their propulsion methods ?

[Rich Griff]

IC engines, burn a fuel, glows use a methanol fuel 

 

If the fuel becomes unavailable, could it be "home made" ?

 

I am sure the TV program I heard the "methanol" being mentioned will be repeated Sunday. Lots of stainless steel kit and two hairy bikers if I am correct.....

 

Someone mentioned getting the liquids from chemists shop way back when, and running s Cox BB with no nitro. I have run Cox bb's on Mt straight castor...

So, if fuel becomes unavailable, could home brew ( or fermented/distilled ????? ) Fuel be made, meaning that tea chest full of engines under the bench could be still used ??

 

Or if you like, drink yourself to death instead.

 

Happy landings    hick......

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Rich - there is NO POSSIBILITY that the production of methanol would be featured in a cookery programme.  It is a nasty poison, ingestion and even significant skin contact leading to damage to the optic nerve, blindness, brain damage or death. 
 

There is little likelihood of methanol becoming scarce - it’s widely used in industry, as is nitromethane. 
 

Can we please drop this diversion and return to the topic of model aircraft engines. 

[John Lee]

Whilst I moved over from IC to electric flight a few years ago I'm sure that IC will remain a viable option for those that prefer that motive power.

 

While cars replaced horses, we still have horse riding. Railways usurped the canals but we still have an active inland waterways life. Internal combustion replaced steam but we still have traction engine rallies The world is ever changing but there is always room for those that hanker after an older technology.