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Making Old Timers More "Flyable"?


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Afternoon All,

 

I'm keeping half an eye on a potential quick project for next winter (between my long refurb list) and I'd really like to build another Old Timer. My first build back in to RC at the start of Covid was a Junior 60 from Ben Buckle. I LOVE the build style of Old Timers - all stick fuselages, beautiful wing shapes, and I'll always opt for fabric covering because I enjoy it. 

 

The only problem is, as much as I can appreciate the joy of nudging it around the sky, backing of the throttle until it sits in the wind nicely and watching it potter about gracefully, after a while it is incredibly boring. 

 

Are there any Old Timers that lend themselves to a more "sport flying" set up - 4ch conversion, fairly adventurous wind ranges, and mild to moderate aerobating (pretty much B Cert schedule stuff)?

 

Depending on which engine will be spare at the end of the season, I'm thinking of either an Elf biplane or a Falcon but i'm wondering if there's anything else - maybe Bristol M1c from Balsa USA might scratch the traditional build itch, but be more fun in the sky. 

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Posted (edited)

As to flying the old timers... I have a Ben Buckle Scorpion , & Junioer 60 cutrrently flying & a Super 60 in the loft awaiting a new wing..... As much as I have enjoyed flying various types of models over the years... yes im not old at almost 51 but comign back into the hobby last year I know find myself leaning more towards the older models which I wud never get bored of just plodding round the sky at a nice slow relaxed pace rather than taring around the sky like a rat up a drain pipe ,, I can do it all day everyday easily and right now prefer that more relaxed style of flying way more than say flying my Panic or Ruckus.... I even have an old Waterhouse & eley Superfly ,, yes the 3 channel figerglass trainer and recently i picked up a DB Centurion,,,  I even love and enjoy flying my diesel powered glider which i was flying both days at the weekend

 

I also spent 11 years flying at the Hop Farm Show in Kent and Wings & Wheels in Harlow ,, but now my mad capped sling it round the sky like I stole it days are long gone and I think I'm gradually becoming an old fart type of flier..:classic_laugh:

 

 

 

 

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Edited by GaryW
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I think modifying models like a junior 60 etc to become mildly aerobatic , B test aeros, is to kind of miss the point of that type of aircraft, which is  pottering gently around on calm days, putting the Tx down and laying on your back and enjoying the gentle perambulations of the model. Gentle aeros? How about a Tauri, or a KK Fleetwing or a Falcon 56. all plans available.

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23 minutes ago, Martin Dance 1 said:

I think modifying models like a junior 60 etc to become mildly aerobatic , B test aeros, is to kind of miss the point of that type of aircraft, which is  pottering gently around on calm days, putting the Tx down and laying on your back and enjoying the gentle perambulations of the model. Gentle aeros? How about a Tauri, or a KK Fleetwing or a Falcon 56. all plans available.

Unfortunately that type of flying isn't worth getting out of bed for. The building is lovely, but I can't do more than one flight like that anymore.

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Payneib, yes you can so modify the old timers. Flat bottom wing, less dihedral, beefed up, more power, but it’s then a different beast. 
Buy a chair, then do touch and goes, until the touch gets to 60 meters. Not boring. Or a complete circuit executed at 3 meter altitude. Not boring.

The Bristol would be nice, or most bi planes, 

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You could always build a vintage model but use a semi-symetrical wing section.  The thick Clark Y section or even undercambered sections  of these, originally free flight, models was to get them climbing quickly, not to penetrate into wind.   Also bear in mind that any designs with a lifting section tailplane were intended to have the centre of gravity at 50% or more of the wing chord as they were single speed models.  At least the Junior 60 with its flat plate tail and 'conventional' centre of gravity would adapt more easily.

Most vintage models with modern engines are massively overpowered compared to the originals, so getting off the ground won't be an issue.

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Posted (edited)

+ 1 for the Astro Hog.

 

Or how about an Uproar? Stick built, symmetrical wing section, finished runner up in the European Aerobatic Championships in 1959. The plan is available on The Outerzone. There are three different versions: https://outerzone.co.uk/search/results.asp?keyword=Uproar. There is also a short-kit of the Uproar by Belair Models now being marketed by SLEC: https://www.belairdigital.co.uk/detail.asp?id=1029. My Uproar is pictured below.

 

Then there are Chris Olsen's low wing designs, the Uplift and the Upset: https://outerzone.co.uk/search/results.asp?keyword=Chris+Olsen

 

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Edited by David Davis 2
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Posted (edited)

When training rookie pilots who come along with a vintage style model, I always find there is a tendency to zoom up and stall when too much throttle is applied, speed build up in a turn or from an inadvertent dive. This is a hindrance to the ease of learning. The best and easiest trainer I have tutored with was a Vmar model whose name I can't remember but it had a symmetrical section wing which was immune to the zooming effect.

Edited by Andy Stephenson
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Trouble is that the vintage models are very good at what they do - but to get to 'B' flyability you will be modifying most of it's stability out of it...

 

Take a look at the Frog Jackdaw. The plan is available on outer zone for download, is all built up like a Super 60, and can be built as a 3 function trainer/lazy floater or a 4 function aerobatic model - just build the two styles of wing.

 

There is a thread on here on the re-furb of one.

 

Tom

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