Cheap and safe overnight shed heating .

[Keith Evans 3]

Looking for advice on the above . It,s coming up to winter and I have a 12ft. X12ft concrete block shed standing on a concrete base . It has a 3ft x3ft double glazed window and 6ft x2ft 6 double glazed door .The roof is 1.5 inches of marine ply which is covered in butyl .

There is some basic polystyrene in side on the roof and one wall.

By the way Sarah calls it the Playroom .

Thanks .

 

 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Underfloor electric ?.

[Engine Doctor]

Have look at the diesel heaters . They can be set up in a  box outside and blow warm air into the shed . Hot air with little or no condensation like gas or normal paraffin heaters as flame and exhaust goes to outside. The exhaust can be passed through copper pipes and through an old radiator to extract even more heat. They can be turned down very low or even set on a timer . Very effective and cheap to run . 

PS they also run very well on paraffin thats a bit cheaper than diesel unless you know a farmer who can still get red diesel . 

Edited September 29 by Engine Doctor

[Chris Walby]

I agree with ED about the diesel heater and it warm and dry air, but have heard that if you run them at low settings you either have to run them flat out to burn them clean or they give trouble. Not very practicable if you are not there to do it. I just run mine (1 in the van/campervan 1 in the garage) when I am in there and just leave it on flat out.

 

I only run mine on diesel and they are trouble free, I don't want to be fault finding or picking it apart at 5 in the morning in the campervan near sub zero temperatures!

 

IMO needs a 12V battery and a charger as they draw a bit on the start up cycle.

 

IMHO underfloor electric cas to have insulation etc to prevent you trying to heat the planet and not just your shed..loads of expense 

[Keith Evans 3]

Thanks for the suggestion .However I don’t think I,llgoas far as digging up the concrete floor to run the heating system.

I,d also be concerned about the overnight noise if I were to run the diesel generator.

I have been looking Into halogen or oil filled heaters . Any thoughts ?

Thanks

[Ron Gray]

Why do you want overnight heating? The diesel heaters really do chuck out some heat so will heat that shed up in next to no time, put it on 30 minutes before you want to work in it!

[Keith Evans 3]

Hi Ron .

I keep my Lipos and a Futaba 14 sg out there and the Tx does not like it .I currently keep the Tx indoors over the winter and I’ve. Just gone electric and I don.t fancy having them in doors particularly if I go on holidays in the winter months .

I think it would be safer if they were kept out in the playroom .

I do not believe Lipos like cold weather .

Also I,d like to keep my stock of balsa and ply in a reasonably good condition .

[Ron Gray]

You say there is some basic insulation, I would be inclined to look at that as your first move, otherwise your heating will be used to warm up your walls!. Is it feasible to insulate the floor, in other words could you raise the floor by, say 35mm, or would that interfere with your door? If you can raise it then 25mm rigid insulation with a ply overboarded (floating) floor will really improve things.

[Dale Bradly]

What do you mean by "cheap"? Your definition and mine might be different. 

Some forms of heating are lower priced to install, but expensive to run per unit of thermal gain.

Some forms are higher priced to install, and cheaper to run.

There are some that are both expensive to install and run!

I'm not aware of many that are both cheap to install and run when compared per unit of thermal gain ( or we'd all be using them everywhere!)

 

Assuming you mean cheap to run; and the desire to leave going for days/weeks without babysitting: I'd recommend a tiny a/c unit, e.g 2.5kW. Clean, tidy, no smell, no invasive noise. Ive got no idea on pricing in your area though. 

[GrumpyGnome]

Strategically placed greenhouse heater(s)?

 

Plus insulation.....

Edited September 30 by GrumpyGnome

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Underfloor heating is just a wire in the concrete, on in off-peak times electricity, and holds the heat all day,

and of course the temperature is electronically controlled, you don't have to get up at 5 am to turn it on in a cold spell, it' also

great also for oldies like me with bad blood circulation, it keeps our feet warm.

It's silent, no fire hazard, it won't blow dust around, no hot / cold spots, no batteries, charger and smelly fuel to buy and fill outside tanks,

and they always break down when you need them most.

 

I built my house with it 27 years ago and never looked back.

[Tim Flyer]

I have an insulated wood ‘log cabin’ (shed) and use a standard small oil filled radiator (around 2000w) with a thermostat.
It also has a timer which I don’t use.  

 

In the winter I just set the thermostat to keep the temperature a few degrees warmer than outside heat . This means the radiator only comes on when temperatures get below about 10degrees. I find it very economical and just wrap up a bit in the workshop. The important thing is that the workshop is a few degrees above outside temperatures which then avoids condensation damage to tools and keeps the damp out. 

[Chris Walby]

As Tim suggests or a tubular heater , under the shelf with the TX and other stuff to just keep it warm and stop the damp. You can buy thermostat plug top adaptors and set it or Dimplex ones come with a thermostat. It won't heat the shed as it heat loss is so high but it should keep the damp off + cheap to run + easy to install.

 

The diesel heaters are great for popping out to the shed, getting the temperature up and driving the damp out. As for noise my heater sits inside with the exhaust poking outside. They do come with a muffler and as said I kept mine standard. I appreciate that you can do things to recover the exhaust heat, but look at the problems the early condensing boilers had with acidic water! The reason the heaters don't recover the heat as they don't want another problem to solve + the heaters are compact in size without radiators, header tanks and pumps (with glycol for freeze protection) requited. KISS?

[EvilC57]

I have a couple of tubular heaters similar to this, mounted low down on the side walls of my modelling shed.

[Engine Doctor]

43 minutes ago, Chris Walby said:

As Tim suggests or a tubular heater , under the shelf with the TX and other stuff to just keep it warm and stop the damp. You can buy thermostat plug top adaptors and set it or Dimplex ones come with a thermostat. It won't heat the shed as it heat loss is so high but it should keep the damp off + cheap to run + easy to install.

 

The diesel heaters are great for popping out to the shed, getting the temperature up and driving the damp out. As for noise my heater sits inside with the exhaust poking outside. They do come with a muffler and as said I kept mine standard. I appreciate that you can do things to recover the exhaust heat, but look at the problems the early condensing boilers had with acidic water! The reason the heaters don't recover the heat as they don't want another problem to solve + the heaters are compact in size without radiators, header tanks and pumps (with glycol for freeze protection) requited. KISS?

Hi chris . When radiators were mention with diesel heaters they ars used as part or the exhaust sysrem with no fluid in them . A look on youtube will give you the idea

[Phil Green]

I think you have to be realistic, heating a concrete cube set on frozen ground is a huge ask, so leave it to its own devices overnight and go for air temperature in the morning. 

Let the walls & floor be cold but keep them from the air inside with insulation - doesnt have to be expensive - people throw away expanded polystyrene and old carpets all the time. 

Even an old blanket hung over a wall will make a difference.  Fan heaters, diesel heaters etc are quick. Divide your working area in the shed with a curtain and heat only that area.

Air temperature is the key thing, I dont think heating the actual structure of a concrete bunker is economically realistic (...or necessary!) 😉

 

 

Edited September 30 by Phil Green

[Martin McIntosh]

I have used a diesel heater for some time now. It eventually failed, so I stripped the thing down and dug out the considerable amount of carbon. Plug was OK but relaced anyway, the culprit being the tiny protective gauze which the plug sits inside. If the temp. is likely to go below freezing I use a small oil filled heater overnight to protect the considerable amount of paints, resins, glues etc.

My 5x3m wooden shed is insulated with 25mm polystyrene covered with white faced hardboard. This is so effective that the inside stays cool till lunchtime in very hot sunshine (remember that?).

[Shaun Walsh]

If your main concern is to protect electrical equipment and batteries from cold temperatures the make a suitably sized box from Kingspan insulation, put a pet bed heater in it and plug it into the mains (assuming that the shed has a mains supply). Very cheap to run.

[Andy48]

16 hours ago, Engine Doctor said:

Have look at the diesel heaters . They can be set up in a  box outside and blow warm air into the shed . Hot air with little or no condensation like gas or normal paraffin heaters as flame and exhaust goes to outside. The exhaust can be passed through copper pipes and through an old radiator to extract even more heat. They can be turned down very low or even set on a timer . Very effective and cheap to run . 

PS they also run very well on paraffin thats a bit cheaper than diesel unless you know a farmer who can still get red diesel . 

 

You don't need to know a farmer. It is quite a legitimate use of red diesel to heat a domestic workshop. Garages that sell red diesel will ask you to sign for it and state the purpose. Also if any model club is a CASC (Community Aided Sports Club) they too can legitimately purchase red diesel for mowers and similar equipment.

Edited September 30 by Andy48

[Engine Doctor]

Hi Andy . Yes your correct but finding anywhere here in the SE is impossible unkess you buy in bulk and then you have to prove what your using it for. All the garages here  stopped selling it a few years ago.

[Keith Evans 3]

First of all many thanks for the input .

The word “cheap”came about  trying to keep the word count low in the title .To me in my circumstances it boarders on £100 ish .

History of the “concrete block “,I like that description , goes something like this .

In the middle of building a concrete block wall around my rear garden we took a barging holiday on the river Severn.This turned quite eventful as it ended up in total flood .That is another story in itself .We awoke one morning by

 the sounds of builders boards banging into the hull .I brought these home as I could see their potential as roof beams .

Buying more blocks and concrete I completed the shed using a door and window salvaged from a skip together with the beams and corrugated zinc and plastic for the roof .

The shed was used as storage so I could clear the garage so I could build a”Spartan” kit car from an old Triumph Vitesse .

Over the years the shed was repurposed as a gardening and home for two rabbits facility .

At this time I really should have gone the route of floor heating and wall insulation .We make plans and God laughs .

Work ,life , job changes and a lot of travelling got in the way for me .At this stage I,m approaching my 60’s

Aero modelling raises its head again . Busy with building and flying coupled with world wide travelling saw me slowly up grade the shed with new roof ,windows and door etc ,

I,m currently designing my life around old age late 70,s to keep flying .I,m more of a builder than a flyer I ,ve just completed a 60inch version of a RANS RV 4 for a club member .

Back to the shed .To dig up the floor and take out all the shelving etc would be a bridge too far and destroy any reason to live .

So I,m settling on either or the pet warmer and oil heater ideas .

Thanks again 

Keith

[i12fly]

If it eventually comes down to keeping your batteries 'warm'..... in my cold damp garage, I use a couple of biscuit tins with a 12W CFL bulb in each, then place my lipo bags in a couple of tin boxes on top. Keeps Jack Frost at bay -doesn't drop below about 8deg. in winter overnight or above 18deg. on a warm spring day. Must be reasonable as I'm still using some lipos bought in 2016, and 2019 and....

[conrad taggart]

On 29/09/2024 at 20:46, Engine Doctor said:

Have look at the diesel heaters . They can be set up in a  box outside and blow warm air into the shed . Hot air with little or no condensation like gas or normal paraffin heaters as flame and exhaust goes to outside. The exhaust can be passed through copper pipes and through an old radiator to extract even more heat. They can be turned down very low or even set on a timer . Very effective and cheap to run . 

PS they also run very well on paraffin thats a bit cheaper than diesel unless you know a farmer who can still get red diesel . 

I run mine on heating oil - which i just take from the houses main tank - told it runs cleaner - and costs about 60-70p per litre - closer to 60p last time i did a refill.  Been running it for a few years now without issues 

[Cuban8]

On 30/09/2024 at 08:45, EvilC57 said:

I have a couple of tubular heaters similar to this, mounted low down on the side walls of my modelling shed.

I use one of those during the winter months under my Bonneville that's covered and stored in my unheated brick built garage. Just keeps the bike a few degrees warmer than ambient and prevents condensation. Works for my application but I doubt that the very low heat would be very effective in a larger area, certainly without very effective insulation - don't notice any improvement in the main garage space when I go in there - after all eighty watts is very little.

[GrumpyGnome]

when I mentioned electric greenhouse heaters, I was thinking of putting them under the Lipos and Balsa - bathing them in the small amount of heat they generate.... certainly not to heat the whole space....