CAA Registration

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

52 minutes ago, Romeo Whisky said:

Just passed the RCC as per Andy's email ... BUT I didn't have to enter the special password Andy sent, nor was I prompted to enter my existing FlyerID previously sent by CAA.

 

SO:- 

Do I need to retain the CAA FlyerID previously sent?

Will I get a new FlyerID from CAA?

or an updated confirmation CAA FlyerID with the new Expiry Date?

or is the RCC Competency Certificate the only validation I now need?

 

A bit more clarity please Andy.

The Flyer Id that was issued to you will remain valid.

[Frank Skilbeck]

Andy, a quick request to make club secretarys life a bit easier, can you include the members operator and flyer IDs in their profile on the JustGo portal, at the moment the only way I can check is to download each members confirmation of membership as it's included on there. If it is somewhere else please advise.

 

Like a lot of clubs we have several members who are not computer literate and have a habit of missing/losing e-mails, so as club sec I end up checking their info for them.

 

 

[Neil R]

7 minutes ago, Frank Skilbeck said:

Andy, a quick request to make club secretarys life a bit easier, can you include the members operator and flyer IDs in their profile on the JustGo portal, at the moment the only way I can check is to download each members confirmation of membership as it's included on there. If it is somewhere else please advise.

 

Like a lot of clubs we have several members who are not computer literate and have a habit of missing/losing e-mails, so as club sec I end up checking their info for them.

 

 

I can see this already on my own pages - see My Profile, Member Details, Examiner/CAA details.

 

(I'm not an examiner, but can see the CAA info). 

[Michael Barclay]

On 08/01/2025 at 16:20, Merry Mark said:

42. 🤣

Only 3 of us left then!

[Michael Barclay]

19 hours ago, Eric Robson said:

How are we expected to remember the rules when most of us can't remember what we went upstairs for😄

What was the question again?

[Frank Skilbeck]

1 hour ago, Neil R said:

I can see this already on my own pages - see My Profile, Member Details, Examiner/CAA details.

 

(I'm not an examiner, but can see the CAA info). 

Yep, I can see my own, but not other club members and they are the ones asking me to check for them. 

[Bob Burton]

7 hours ago, J D 8 - Moderator said:

model flyer CAA renewal

Do you mean your Operator ID or your Flyer ID ?

No test is required for the former, just a yearly payment.  A test is required for the latter and it lasts for 5 years

[Peter Jenkins]

7 hours ago, Cuban8 said:

My 'Top Hat' remark was intended to be tongue in cheek but with the serious point that we as a group of people who are following a legitimate activity as a hobby or purely for recreation, have been sucked into a maelstrom of inappropriate rules and regulation (to say nothing of extra cost) because of outside forces that have come about through no fault of our own.

A lot of those rules have no meaning to models flown at most club sites and indeed in many other locations where the hobby has been followed for many years.

The alarm bells should have rung much louder as all this was kicking off a number of years ago, as it was found to be unable to define exactly what a model aeroplane was, and therefore your Junior 60 was actually (and absurdly IMHO) classed as a drone and would be lumped in with the legislation to prevent potential drone chaos (allegedly) at airports, sport events and invading people's privacy etc etc.

Moreover, the crazy fear of our operations causing problems for widespread 'Drone Deliveries' for consumer products, that we were promised were about to be common place and would be criss crossing the land and possibly over our flying fields on a regular basis,  but have actually turned out to be a dream stuck on the drawing board - certainly to remain there  for many years to come.

Please note the emphasis on consumer goods, and not the good work that commercial drones are doing in various ways and have virtually zero interaction with R/C model flying.

Unless one is an anarchist, people are generally happy to comply with rules and regulations that are plainly for the common good and have an obvious benefit (we all agree to drive on the left side of the road in the UK as an example). I don't see much in the way of how our lot has improved from how we operated for decades past TBH. I accept that not complying would mean the end of the hobby, but I don't view going along with a flawed scheme to be much of a 'benefit'.

From many conversations with club mates, who through gritted teeth have gone along with all this because they have to, there is still a deep feeling that we've 'been had' and my comments do contain points that have been raised by many others.

I do think it's important to talk about this - hopefully, the BMFA in its excellent work in dealing with the CAA on our behalf, are taking note of all points of view within these discussions.

 

Sadly Cuban 8, and all those who share your views, you have missed one vital point.  The airspace is owned by the Government.  This is quite separate from land and sea where the Government doesn't automatically own all the land and sea.  Many people are unaware that they don't even own the airspace directly above their house.   

 

Furthermore, there was a decision taken by the EU back in 2014 or so (I forget exactly when but it was a long time ago) where they saw that the use of unmanned aerial systems provided a great way in for a new industry that could avoid getting tangled up with the usual aviation procedures and allow a lower barrier of entry for a large number of companies.  The idea being that a lot of new businesses would be enabled by using unmanned systems.  Of course, the regulators were put in charge of making this happen which is why it is taking so long.  The biggest impetus to unmanned systems, actually any new systems, is, sadly, war.  As we have seen in the many wars that have been going for the past 30 years, there has been a growing use of unmanned systems (air land and sea) to keep humans out of dull, dangerous or dirty environments.  The war in Ukraine has catapulted hobby drones and the use of FPV techniques to conduct a new type of warfare.  This has both reduced the cost of these weapons systems and allowed huge advances in capabilities and methods of use that, sadly, only wars allow.  We can expect that the fall out from the use of drones (land, sea and air) will be greatly increased by militaries around the world.  What happens in in the military world derisks civil use of these vehicles. 

 

You are making the classic mistake of thinking about drones from a model aircraft viewpoint.  You need to look far wider and realise that there are real economic advantages to the use of unmanned systems in everyday life.  I give as an example the use of drones to check crop health in arable farms.  This can be used to determine whether the crop is diseased, the extent of the problem and how well the remedial action has resolved the problem.  That, of course, puts drones next door to many of our flying sites.  Transmission line inspection is another huge money spinner as it avoids the use of expensive rotary or fixed wing assets.

 

I hope that helps those who are stuck down the "I just want to fly my model aeroplane without outside interference" view.  It's about a far bigger picture.

 

On that note, I shall disconnect from this thread as I'm wasting too much of my time fighting past battles.

[J D 8 - Moderator]

                

19 minutes ago, Bob Burton said:

Do you mean your Operator ID or your Flyer ID ?

No test is required for the former, just a yearly payment.  A test is required for the latter and it lasts for 5 years

        Have done the test and passed, downloaded certificate to pdf file. Trying to update membership profile as requested in email [have read the how to do so attachment]

         However when I click on the my profile to update details the page is there for just a second and then is gone. Grrr

[Learner]

7 minutes ago, J D 8 - Moderator said:

                

        Have done the test and passed, downloaded certificate to pdf file. Trying to update membership profile as requested in email [have read the how to do so attachment]

         However when I click on the my profile to update details the page is there for just a second and then is gone. Grrr

Ah you pressed the Gizmo instead of the Doofar.

You now have to retake the test and pay a £50 fine!

[Bob Burton]

2 hours ago, Learner said:

You now have to retake the test and pay a £50 fine!

And do not pass Go and collect £200 😆

[Tim Kearsley]

2 hours ago, J D 8 - Moderator said:

                

        Have done the test and passed, downloaded certificate to pdf file. Trying to update membership profile as requested in email [have read the how to do so attachment]

         However when I click on the my profile to update details the page is there for just a second and then is gone. Grrr

I found the same, but I found the way around it is to click on the left-arrow at the left of the word "Membership'.  This takes you to a menu from where you can select "Profile".

[Cuban8]

17 hours ago, Frank Skilbeck said:

Andy, a quick request to make club secretarys life a bit easier, can you include the members operator and flyer IDs in their profile on the JustGo portal, at the moment the only way I can check is to download each members confirmation of membership as it's included on there. If it is somewhere else please advise.

 

Like a lot of clubs we have several members who are not computer literate and have a habit of missing/losing e-mails, so as club sec I end up checking their info for them.

 

 

Me too.

[Nick Cripps]

I've tried doing this using the "Club Reports" option but the output is not really in a useable form. It shows Membership Type as either Senior or CAA Registration whichever has the later expiry date (at least that what it appears to be).

 

@Andy Symons - BMFA would it be possible to update this report to display BMFA/BDF Membership Category, Operator Registration and Flyer ID, along with the expiry date of each?

 

[FlyinFlynn]

15 hours ago, Peter Jenkins said:

Sadly Cuban 8, and all those who share your views, you have missed one vital point.  The airspace is owned by the Government.  This is quite separate from land and sea where the Government doesn't automatically own all the land and sea.  Many people are unaware that they don't even own the airspace directly above their house.   

 

 

I don't think that is right Peter, the land owner 'owns' the airspace extending above their land up to around 500 feet. After that the CAA administer the airspace up to FL600 and above that the airspace is considered to be UK sovereign airspace.

 

https://www.airspacedeveloper.co.uk/2022/05/11/do-i-own-airspace-above-my-property

https://dronesurveymanchester.co.uk/who-owns-airspace-above-my-property-uk/

 

[Nigel R]

15 hours ago, Peter Jenkins said:

The war in Ukraine has catapulted hobby drones and the use of FPV techniques to conduct a new type of warfare.

 

Minor point of note, use of commercial hobby drones in Ukraine decreased a while ago - Russia worked out they could use the manufacturer's own snooper systems to located both drone and operator, with obvious consequences. Commercial drones tend to rely on GPS which (to probably little surprise) can be jammed/spoofed.

[Nigel R]

Just now, FlyinFlynn said:

I don't think that is right Peter, the land owner 'owns' the airspace extending above their land up to around 500 feet.

 

Hence the general 400ft limit?

[Bob Burton]

3 hours ago, FlyinFlynn said:

the land owner 'owns' the airspace extending above their land up to around 500 fee

Why did you use scare quotes around the word owns ?  Either they own it or they don't

 

I note that one of the links that you posted leads to a page that says

 

• Quote

  Drones are prohibited from flying below 50 meters over private property without permission.

  and

• Quote

  The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) regulates drone usage in the UK. They've set rules that prohibit drones from flying below 50 meters over private property without permission

   

•  

• That directly contradicts the information on the CAA website in respect of UAVs under 250 grams so I will take the rest of what the dronessurveymanchester says with a pinch of salt

[Ron Gray]

3 hours ago, FlyinFlynn said:

I don't think that is right Peter, the land owner 'owns' the airspace extending above their land up to around 500 feet.

But they have very limited control rights to that airspace! This allows the upwards development of the owner's property and stops neighbours building over it but it doesn't extend to air traffic.

[Frank Skilbeck]

7 hours ago, Nigel R said:

 

Hence the general 400ft limit?

No, general aviation are expected to stay above 500ft (1000ft over congested areas), so the 400ft is to keep an adequate separation, we as BMFA members have the article exemption from this due to our good safety record etc.

[Bruce Collinson]

I think that freehold title in England and Wales is predicated on the concept that one’s property ownership extends down to the centre of the planet, and upwards to infinity (or indeed beyond!).

 

However, underground, constraints include the Coal Authority which has sweeping statutory rights, and the common scenario where a former owner has reserved the mines and minerals as a separate freehold title under the surface.   It is commonly held that merely excavating foundations will inevitably represent an act of trespass.

 

Above ground the constraint is aviation law which reserves rights to the organs of the state which are an effective block on building or otherwise “occupying” one’s freehold property above defined heights.   This in my understanding has nothing to do with the height limitations imposed on us by the CAA et al.

 

BTC

[J D 8 - Moderator]

      The position of what goes on in the airspace above one property is a rather grey area. Following a court case in 1978 of " Bernstein of Leigh v Skyviews and general".

       The outcome and judgement on the case is somewhat vague but it is where the lawyers still go for guidance for what can or cannot be done within the airspace above ones property.

       

       

[FlyinFlynn]

19 hours ago, Bob Burton said:

  Either they own it or they don't

I do find this whole concept of 'ownership' quite amusing. 

[Bob Bertram]

I have just passed the RCC and whilst looking at the incorrect answers it all disappeared,  any ideas how I can get it back to be able to download it to the BMFA? I'm not very clever with computers!

[Outrunner]

My results were emailed to me after the test together with a link to my certificate. Much to my suprise I passed with 35 out of 40 correct answers. It was so irritating with so many drone orientated questions when I have absolutely no desire to fly a drone. I was pleased to pass though, still life in the old dog!