A Shortage Of Balsa And Lipo's, Where Do We Go From Here?

[Robin Colbourne]

Posted by Ray Wood 4 on 19/11/2020 12:04:26:

Hi All,

I just ordered some ply from SLEC, they told me there is a container of Balsa heading to the UK

Regards Ray

I no Somali pirates discover that its got balsa in it, otherwise the ransom they demand will make the one for an oil tanker look like chicken feed.

[ken anderson.]

Posted by Ray Wood 4 on 19/11/2020 12:04:26:

Hi All,

I just ordered some ply from SLEC, they told me there is a container of Balsa heading to the UK

Regards Ray

 

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

 

thanks for that Ray... here's the link

 

ken anderson...ne..1...building dept.

 

Edited By ken anderson. on 19/11/2020 15:19:03

[Robin Colbourne]

Posted by Trevor Crook on 19/11/2020 14:43:12:

A crucial difference between oil and batteries is that the latter are 90% recyclable. Once oil is burnt, it is gone forever. I know that batteries aren't the fuel, but renewable energy generation has been, and continues to be increasing rapidly.

We only use oil out of the ground as it is currently the cheapest option. There are processes using bacteria to convert waste vegetable matter into fuel. In fact Rudolf Diesel originally envisaged the engine which bears his name running on peanut oil.

[Bob Cotsford]

On the news the other night PNG palm oil production came up as the Korean owners of the palm plantations are expanding the area under cultivation. This is displacing native villagers and local wildlife as more land is taken up. I wondered at the time how this affects balsa cultivation as I'd imagine palm oil is a better cash crop.

I keep seeing comments about the 2030 deadline for the end of IC only car sales, do some people not realise that this won't include all the hybrid vehicles most of which are not plug-in so these won't in turn affect the electricity supply requirements? Pretty much every manufacturer already have hybrids in their line-ups with more models in the pipeline.

[Tim Kearsley]

Posted by MattyB on 18/11/2020 17:00:04

Controversial viewpoint alert... At some point humankind will have to wake up and realise there is not enough of ANY of our current key resources to continue our inexorable rates of consumption. We will have to adjust our population (and accept standards of living will plateau), or nature will adjust it painfully for us.

Not something that any politician will ever want to say (long term solutions and 4 year electoral cycles are intrinsically incompatible), but Attenboroguh has been saying it for years. I know who I believe...

Absolutely, indisputably, 100% correct. Well said MattyB. Far too many people are afraid of saying anything about population.

[Trevor Crook]

Bob, the statement said "Certain types of hybrid would still be allowed". I'll wager these will be plug-ins, not those known by the ridiculous term "self charging". I bet a minimum electric-only range is specified, too.

[Ace]

Self-charging Hybrids - Surely using petrol to power a generator is not very efficient and can only be lip service calling it green. Plug-in yes. Hydrogen I think that has legs once they get the production cost sorted.

[Nigel R]

"2030 deadline for the end of IC only car sales, do some people not realise that this won't include all the hybrid vehicles"

2035 is the proposed cutoff for hybrids; not far behind the IC only cutoff.

"There are processes using bacteria to convert waste vegetable matter into fuel."

Methanol? Glow powered Focus anyone?

The ultimate limit on biofuel is down to how much green stuff you can grow, and food crops are arguably more important.

"using petrol to power a generator is not very efficient"

The 1st gen Prius was introduced as a way of making a highly efficient petrol car.

The main plus points being that you can run the genny at maximum efficiency every time you need it, and the grab bag of stop/start energy re-use mechanisms make a huge difference to around-town driving... and any time you are able, the predominant motive power comes direct from the petrol shaft. The Prius gear system was able to keep the engine at optimum RPM regardless of road speed.

"Hydrogen "

Hydrogen does not have legs - you have to create it in the first place and any conversion process is inefficient and requires pure water. Purifying sea water is a massive energy sink so that's out. Hence the only places it is produced are at hydroelectric dams where the energy cost is exceedingly low thanks to gravity, and the water supply is unlimited, and the inefficiency matters not a jot. For a whole world answer it is sorely lacking...

There was a long electric car thread where lots of this was chewed over...

[Martin McIntosh]

Way off the original subject, but as long as there is a drop of oil left in the ground then any major advance in things like battery technology, electricity production, hydrogen power etc will be quashed by the all too powerful oil companies.

Oh, and some kind people at a certain model shop were able to conjour up enough 1/8th soft sheet to complete my current build. Looks very like it may be the last.

[Erfolg]

At present there are issues with respect to the head room with respect the base load capability. Only last week the back up generation capability was called on to the point where approx £+8 per Kw watt hour(if my memory serves me well). This was a a multiple of the normal price by a significant margin. A lack of wind, not a problem this week though.

The EU is also threatening the UK with disconnection of the existing inter connectors, unless the UK accepts a number of terms.

Add additional electricity demands, now there is a problem.

It does appear that the Treasury is investigating charging per mile traveled. GREEN peace want private cars of the road, and public transport increased by a large amount. It takes in my case approx 30 minutes by car to get to the nearest town, 7 miles away. By bus, it takes 1 hour 15 minutes.

Probably the biggest issue for many is vehicle charging. Using standard domestic supply, it is a long process. Commercial charging points apparently cost more per mile than the either diesel or petrol. I can see this becoming increasingly the standard rate.

Hybrids in reality do not come close to saving the planet. Remember the claim is often up to 20 miles, then a IC engine kicks in. When this happens, at present there is the inefficiency of both electricity generation , plus that of the IC engine.

I know that enthusiasts of electric power that battery disposal is not an issue, at some point they will be disposed of.

A lot of the benefits are an illusion, yet I suspect the path ahead will be followed as far as is possible, irrespective of reality, with soap and mirrors being used copiously.

l

[Tim Kearsley]

Posted by Erfolg on 19/11/2020 17:58:25:

Probably the biggest issue for many is vehicle charging. Using standard domestic supply, it is a long process. Commercial charging points apparently cost more per mile than the either diesel or petrol. I can see this becoming increasingly the standard rate.

No, that's not true. I drive an electric car and the chargers I use cost from 0p per mile (yes, they are free) up to about 10p per mile. My 7kW home charger costs me about 3p per mile. I charge overnight, so if it takes a few hours it doesn't matter.

Tim.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

There is NO Balsa shortage, the World has too many Balsa purchasers.

[JOHN MOSLEY 2]

As I type this 50% Gas 13.2 Nuclear 6.7% Biomass 13.42% Wind. Yet one add tonight said there electric supply was 100% Green Energy. Well Gas is Carbon, Biomass is straw/wood Last time I looked wood was Carbon based.

Check how much Diesel is burned getting the straw from the field to the power station. Where did the fertilizer come from to grow the crop. I am a Farmers son and we were organic, it seemed a good way to grow crops strangled with weeds and a really low yield.

Edited By JOHN MOSLEY 2 on 19/11/2020 18:24:26

[Peter Miller]

While reading all this I suddenly remembered some items on the local news programs some years ago.

People were taking the used oil from chippies shops and converting it to useable diesel fuels.

It worked!!

Oh! an talking of overpopulation,Chris Packham has been talking about it for a while now.

I am not worried. The NEXT pandemic will certainly solve that problem. Ebola anyone???

[kc]

Well if a container of balsa is on it's way how far will it go?

If it's a 40 ft container fully stuffed with balsa thats 2385 cu ft. My calculation is that a cubic foot of balsa (1728 cu inches) is needed for every 8 kits of the size of the average kit say similar to a Peter Miller type design. ( it's common to see a kit box about 2 inches thick with 3 inch by 36 inch balsa so my calculation is based on that - say 216 cu inches of balsa )

Of course there may be huge wastage in sawing down to 1/16 etc, so a cubic foot might only make 5 kits - who knows? So maybe 12,000 kits or maybe only 10,000 if the container has lots of empty space caused by pallets, dunnage etc. So perhaps a 40ft container will allow a third of the BMFA membership to make a medium size balsa model! Or about a sixth of the membership if it's only a 20ft container......

Actually only about one sixth of the BMFA may be capable of making a model from balsa so maybe it's OK and we builders will have enough for a model each! No need for anyone to get trampled underfoot in a stampede for balsa! Or if the film industry pays more than us or the LMA members get there first then who knows........

[GONZO]

An assumption from many posts that I fear will be incorrect is that the market size/penetration and thus number of electric vehicles will be roughly similar to now. I think not and many will be 'coerced' into using public transport or moving home.

As to there being too many people on the planet then I suggest looking at where the population growth comes from. Western countries have a well publicised falling birth rate and any population growth is largely from mass migration. Am I detecting sympathy for eugenics amongst some of the posters? Are they going to be first to 'give up their lives'? Or, are they like Bill Gates, who like his father is a publicly declared eugenicist, and have others make the sacrifice. Bill is on video stating that he could reduce world population by 10% - 15% by the use of vaccines, a statement that troubles me given our current situation.

The shortage of materials for electric vehicles was noted in this publication some time back **LINK**

[Peter Miller]

I look around me and at the news.

I happily look forward to reducing the population by one!!!

[Erfolg]

Tim, you are misunderstanding, or more probably I have not expressed myself effectively. The problem with home charging is time related, of course you can get 3 phase installed, and fast charge potential problem is that some are already looking to charge higher rate for domestic home 3 phase. Will it happen, in principle yes, in predicted detail no.

We have to recognise that IC fuel is very cheap, it is the fuel tax and VAT which make the stuff so dear. I am confident that that we motorists and even public transport will pay the tax gap.

As for Balsa, it is good news that the trade as anticipated has found alternative supplies. That is the up side of the private sector, it does not just sit back and hope to charge higher prices, it fights to be viable.

[PatMc]

Posted by GONZO on 19/11/2020 19:32:47:

.

Am I detecting sympathy for eugenics amongst some of the posters? Are they going to be first to 'give up their lives'? Or, are they like Bill Gates, who like his father is a publicly declared eugenicist, and have others make the sacrifice. Bill is on video stating that he could reduce world population by 10% - 15% by the use of vaccines, a statement that troubles me given our current situation.

 

Gonzo, I think perhaps you should get out more instead of reading so many conspiracy theorists' garbage (that has already, by the way, been debunked) . By repeating & spreading this nonsense you are simply allowing yourself be used as a naive tool.

Edited By PatMc on 19/11/2020 21:22:14

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Balsas not the only shortage around.

[Dwain Dibley.]

Will you be able to charge your electric pushbike at these recharge stations. Cycling is after all, emissions free and very green, and helps you live longer........Oh hang on

D.D.

[David Davis 2]

Posted by kc on 19/11/2020 19:11:48:

... Actually only about one sixth of the BMFA may be capable of making a model from balsa so maybe it's OK and we builders will have enough for a model each! No need for anyone to get trampled underfoot in a stampede for balsa! Or if the film industry pays more than us or the LMA members get there first then who knows........

Is that true, only 16% of the BMFA membership can build a balsa model?

I suppose it's the same in my club in France, even the recently retired novices are only assembling and flying electric powered foamies. We tried to change this situation at our club in France by getting three schoolboys interested in building a simple foam model, which was mostly straight lines. The main trouble was that the older, experienced builders insisted in doing most of the work themselves and the lads started to lose interest.

Then Covid came along and we were not allowed meet indoors in large groups anymore.

[Peter Miller]

After talking to a friend today I have realised that in my case building has developed into OCD

[kc]

Of course I don't know what percentage of BMFA members actually make balsa models but it seems something like 1 out of 6 club members actually make from balsa. Almost anybody could with the right instruction but most don't bother or claim they don't have a workshop so they cannot.

Only 10 or 20 years ago almost everyone turned up to fly with a model they made themselves. Now the people who in recent years left school without having woodwork lessons cannot even ' put up a shelf ' and think its beneath their dignity to try to use tools. So they just buy ready built. Seems like women are more likely to try DIY now! Actually the amazing thing is that most people manage to install the servos, radio, electric motor etc into an ARTF plane quite well. It would seem that plugging things into computers etc teaches them that, so if only they had woodwork lessons plus technical drawing and metalwork lessons they could have been real ' build it yourself from balsa ' aeromodellers too.......

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]