cymaz Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 (edited) As I read it, groups of no more than 6 can meet. An organised sport of more than 6 is ok, so long as your risk assessment has been approved by the governing body for that sport......( correct me if I’ve not got it right). The Bmfa include a risk assessment link. Now, question is, once you’ve filled out the R.A. for your club, will Chacksfield House put their name to it ?? Paragraph 3 of the RA speaks of limiting numbers to ensure social distancing. So, 6 or less? Edited March 6, 2021 by cymaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary52 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 There are as many opinions as to what the best course is for the government to take, but only one government to take it and only one everyone holds responsible. Strangely, not the Chinese one! A lot of people feel that the rules are "not fair" in as much as they affect them and prevent them doing as they wish. This has led to a large number of "it doesn't apply to me" incidents that have set us back and we don't have to look far to see this happening around us. The vaccine programme seems to be a great success and makes me grateful we are no longer subject to the dead hand of the EU. Personally, I am also of the opinion that I should and will continue to take the simple precautions used over the last year until I am happy that my immunity and that of others has reduced the virus to the level of influenza. Looking forward to the 29th March along with everybody in our splendid hobby. Keep well and stay safe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 9 minutes ago, Geoff S said: It certainly was in 1967. My wife's veil got blown off and I had to rescue the vicar or he'd have been flattened by the enormous church door as he tried to open it to let us out. He claimed it was bad luck not to leave by the same door where we'd entered - we used a side door - I'm still trying to work out if we've had bad luck :). We gave up on our honeymoon after 3 days and came back to sort out our house the weather was so bad (we were supposed to go walking). Let's hope for better this year. Funnily enough, our wedding day it was blowing a gale and rain. We had to have the pictures in the church it was so bad....12 September 1987 ( or was it ‘88 ? JOKING DEAR) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 On 27/02/2021 at 10:04, Paul C. said: Remember the 29th is the earliest date and could well change if things do not go according to plan, fingers crossed everyone plays nice and nothing unforseen befalls us . ??. I'm with you on this . The trouble is mention a date the masses are taking it as rubber stamped and are ready to go ! As said in another post If it kicks off again it will be a nightmare . People in our area are already seemingly ignoring lock-down ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 For me, up here in Scotland, this is the basic guidance that I'm following and will continue to follow. I'm not very interested in all the hair splitting and special pleading which goes directly against that advice. I do not consider going flying to be an essential purpose. Stay at home To minimise the risk of spreading the virus, you must stay at home as much as possible. By law, in a Level 4 area, you can only leave your home (or garden) for an essential purpose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Carlton Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 I don't particularly care whether it is March 8th or 29th, my only issue is that the virus isn't aware of the date or of whether it is a public open space or not. If it isn't safe for me to go flying on March 8th, then it isn't safe for me to go for a run on a local park. It either is or it isn't safe, it can't be both. Either way, we are where we are. Flying isn't essential as rightly stated by leccyflyer, but in that case, neither is meeting up in a public place for a picnic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Same here, not quite sure where the not fair or hair splitting comments are ? There have been comments about it's allowed on PUBLIC land but not more secure club facilities, seems fair comment to me. And for the record, I have two large parks within two miles, a Golf course, a Race course and a massive playing/public field 100yds away, I'll not be flying on any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 An additional area of confusion... If a club flies on what can be regarded as "public land", can we fly from 8 March (limited to 2 people) as we are flying on public land? "From Monday 8th March, outdoor recreation (and therefore model aircraft flying) is permitted in public outdoor places, either alone, with members of your household or with one other person. A public outdoor place for the purposes of the regulations is a public outdoor place where no payment is required by any member of the public to access." Or does the club have to remain "closed", so no flying can take place until 29 March? "Outdoor sportsgrounds and facilities (which includes model flying club sites) remain in the list of business/services that must remain closed." Arguably both cases apply! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 The trouble is that all of the laws and regulations, by necessity, need to be drafted and in place quickly. As such, they will NEVER cover 100% of circumstances. And there is zero chance of pleasing everyone. I myself am in two minds because my flying field is far closer than any shops, and I am far more likely to be close to anyone walking down my street, than I am going to my club field.... GG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterF Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 The thing is that most people seem to forget is that the government can not legislate for each type of sports field, or try and make rules for the different sports that have different contact levels. The government just has to use some fairly blunt tools that are easy to categorize and describe without ambiguity. We unluckily are in a sport / recreation where we can social distance and there is no need for any contact so we could continue safely, but just have to abide by the rules. I will not be vaccinated u til end March so I will still be very circumspect when I do start flying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Carlton Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 The issue with your point Peter, if there is one, is that there are seemingly NO rules over activity in a public space. Potentially, and probably, we could see parks, beaches, playgrounds, country parks etc etc being very crowded places with no restriction on numbers providing that individuals visit ostensibly in groups of two people. That seems to be a very fertile breeding and transmission ground over which nobody has any control. What of full size flying? Is landing at an airfield prohibited because you pay a landing fee if the airfield belongs to a flying club? But you can land at an international airport because it isn't private? Anyway, I have said my piece I think, so I won't labour the point. Roll on better times and better weather. Thankfully this week's forecast looks fairly horrendous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 9 minutes ago, PeterF said: The thing is that most people seem to forget is that the government can not legislate for each type of sports field, or try and make rules for the different sports that have different contact levels. The government just has to use some fairly blunt tools that are easy to categorize and describe without ambiguity. We unluckily are in a sport / recreation where we can social distance and there is no need for any contact so we could continue safely, but just have to abide by the rules. I will not be vaccinated u til end March so I will still be very circumspect when I do start flying. I think that's exactly the case. To craft a set of rules that covers any eventuality is very complicated (which is why 'proper' legislation' takes such a lot of effort) so these emergency regulations are a very blunt instrument. To expect them to cater for such a minority interest as ours is asking a lot. I'm no particular fan of this administration for lots of reasons but the lockdown rules are what they are and seem to be working alongside the vaccination programme. I expect to get my second dose in early April - fingers crossed - and until then I'll pretend I haven't even had the first. I'm as fed up as anybody but there are people who are suffering far more than I am. We have no financial problems (well no more than normal!) and we have our health and roof so we have to be patient. I have 30 minutes to an hour on the simulator to keep my hand in ? Geoff 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 (edited) 53 minutes ago, John Privett said: An additional area of confusion... If a club flies on what can be regarded as "public land", can we fly from 8 March (limited to 2 people) as we are flying on public land? "From Monday 8th March, outdoor recreation (and therefore model aircraft flying) is permitted in public outdoor places, either alone, with members of your household or with one other person. A public outdoor place for the purposes of the regulations is a public outdoor place where no payment is required by any member of the public to access." Or does the club have to remain "closed", so no flying can take place until 29 March? "Outdoor sportsgrounds and facilities (which includes model flying club sites) remain in the list of business/services that must remain closed." Arguably both cases apply! Its one of the grey areas. I have had a number of emails on this today. If only your members can fly there then its not a public outdoor space where anyone can fly without paying the club fee and should remain closed. If anyone can turn up and fly without having interaction with the club its very much a grey area. Personally I would sit it out until 29th March. Edited March 6, 2021 by Andy Symons - BMFA 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 17 minutes ago, Geoff S said: I think that's exactly the case. To craft a set of rules that covers any eventuality is very complicated (which is why 'proper' legislation' takes such a lot of effort) so these emergency regulations are a very blunt instrument. To expect them to cater for such a minority interest as ours is asking a lot. I'm no particular fan of this administration for lots of reasons but the lockdown rules are what they are and seem to be working alongside the vaccination programme. I expect to get my second dose in early April - fingers crossed - and until then I'll pretend I haven't even had the first. I'm as fed up as anybody but there are people who are suffering far more than I am. We have no financial problems (well no more than normal!) and we have our health and roof so we have to be patient. I have 30 minutes to an hour on the simulator to keep my hand in ? Geoff As long as you remember there's no reset button, when you go back to flying outdoors, jobs a good un. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Yes, John, simulators are rubbish at repair simulation - I'm glad to say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lima Hotel Foxtrot Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 17 hours ago, Gary52 said: The vaccine programme seems to be a great success and makes me grateful we are no longer subject to the dead hand of the EU. POLITICS! tut, tut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIMON CRAGG Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Adhering to the Government rules, we are starting to plan a limited (max 6) return to flying from the 29th. We are circulating the "Covid 6" guidelines to all members. One topic that has not been mentioned, is what (if any) measures are clubs putting in place for members who for whatever reason (subject to age) have refused or have not had a vaccine?. We are in the process of having a zoom committee meeting on the subject. As yet, have not seen anything from the BMFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Given that 29/3 is waaayyyy ahead of the end of the vaccination programme, surely all you can do is ensure sanitisation and social distancing.......... The scientists keep telling us that just because someone is vaccinated, doe not mean they are not infected. GG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 20 minutes ago, SIMON CRAGG said: Adhering to the Government rules, we are starting to plan a limited (max 6) return to flying from the 29th. We are circulating the "Covid 6" guidelines to all members. One topic that has not been mentioned, is what (if any) measures are clubs putting in place for members who for whatever reason (subject to age) have refused or have not had a vaccine?. We are in the process of having a zoom committee meeting on the subject. As yet, have not seen anything from the BMFA. https://www.bmfa.org/News/News-Page/ArticleID/2726/COVID-19-Regulations-Update-%E2%80%93-06-03-2021 Was also emailed to members yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Carlton Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 I'm not sure what happens in other clubs but to be honest, standing 3 or 4m apart was pretty much the norm. I don't think that we really need to worry too much, given that what we do is pretty low risk. Certainly much lower than going to the supermarket, filling up with petrol, working with other people etc. Ok, so no shaking hands or friendly hugs, but in all honesty, how close DO you routinely get to your club mates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 23 minutes ago, Matt Carlton said: I'm not sure what happens in other clubs but to be honest, standing 3 or 4m apart was pretty much the norm. I don't think that we really need to worry too much, given that what we do is pretty low risk. Certainly much lower than going to the supermarket, filling up with petrol, working with other people etc. Ok, so no shaking hands or friendly hugs, but in all honesty, how close DO you routinely get to your club mates? Not that close generally. However sometimes you have to help out with restraining an airframe, or giving medical assistance. There is also the (regular) occasion when several heads are in the same fuselage trying to figure out what the club idiot has done to his model this time, that makes it unfliable (every club should have one !). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 1 hour ago, SIMON CRAGG said: Adhering to the Government rules, we are starting to plan a limited (max 6) return to flying from the 29th. We are circulating the "Covid 6" guidelines to all members. One topic that has not been mentioned, is what (if any) measures are clubs putting in place for members who for whatever reason (subject to age) have refused or have not had a vaccine?. We are in the process of having a zoom committee meeting on the subject. As yet, have not seen anything from the BMFA. Perhaps your committee might like to consider the BMFA risk assessment policy - particularly: Manage Capacity Ensure social distancing is possible, limit numbers if necessary Consider number of members who can reasonably social distance on the flight line, in the pits and any shared areas, including indoor facilities. My understanding is that from the 29th of March, there is no actual attendance limit applicable to BMFA affiliated model flying clubs which comply with the BMFA guidance. If you choose to limit attendance to 6 as part of your risk assessment then so be it but if you can reasonably accommodate more, then as long as your risk assessment can justify more then you are free to set any limit or not as you judge to be safe. Much the same for your second point. Consider if any concessions or restrictions due to vaccinations are appropriate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) I worry when I read things like this. Let's have a meeting to decide whether we should open our club up or not. Should we bannish members who haven't been vaccinated, so that those who have can fly care free? Sorry guys, but even if you have been vaccinated there is no guarantee that you are immune or just as important, that you cannot carry the disease. The ONLY way to be safe is to assume that everyone you come into close proximity with is contagious. Use your own judgement, take your own precautions and err on the side of caution is my advice. I'll be going when it's lawful. It might not be the first weekend because I expect numbers to be high, but I'll be there shortly afterwards, following my own advice. Edited March 7, 2021 by Gary Manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Well I was gonna leave this alone, plenty of our members out there working, keeping us going, when the law permits they'll ALL be attending our field, if they wish and the law permits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 On 06/03/2021 at 17:24, cymaz said: As I read it, groups of no more than 6 can meet. An organised sport of more than 6 is ok, so long as your risk assessment has been approved by the governing body for that sport......( correct me if I’ve not got it right). The Bmfa include a risk assessment link. Now, question is, once you’ve filled out the R.A. for your club, will Chacksfield House put their name to it ?? Paragraph 3 of the RA speaks of limiting numbers to ensure social distancing. So, 6 or less? The BMFA dont need to approve the RA, the requirement is the club does one and shares it with the members. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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