4 max

[Rich Griff]

Some time ago I took I took the leap into electric powered flight and ordered the newly advertised flight pack, the £25 one consisting of 2 props, adapter, motor with mounting kit and 3 small 9 gram servo's.

 

At that time they did not have the recommended batteries in stock.

 

I have been regularly checking the 4 max site and they are now in stock having arrived yesterday.

 

This afternoon I ordered 2 batteries, a charger and a pack of connecters.

 

George, a very helpful chap ( thanks George ) recommended a non deans connection, a better quality and more user friendly product.

 

I just got the email saying they will arrive with me during tomorrow by parcel force.

 

When they arrive I can then play with the system, a be changed test.

 

He said not to use the non leaded solder which is used during manufacture, as it will fail at some point.

 

Now, if the ESC has been soldered with the non lead solder during manufacture, how do I stand reliability wise ?

 

I used some non leaded solder I think last week on a wiring repair on the car. It took seemily well enough on the clean copper wire but did look a bit "dull" unlike the look of resin cord solder. It passed my resistance check across the joint and from end to end of that exrention lead, and the crimped joints too.

 

I will be taking his advise about cutting the deans connecters off and soldering on the new plugs to the battery and ESC.

 

Opinions please, anyone had issues/problems with the modern h+s aspect non lead solder ?

[Don Fry]

My feel, modern factories want their workers to last, or perhaps their government want them to last,  and lead solders are poisonous.

So they use super expensive soldering stations,on clean metal, and that works.

 

But, leaded solder, on non leaded, does not bind well.

 

Cut off the old plug and solder

 

Tin bare metal, solder new plug on.

[Michael Kulagin]

ASK GEORGE!!

[leccyflyer]

17 minutes ago, Don Fry said:

My feel, modern factories want their workers to last, or perhaps their government want them to last,  and lead solders are poisonous.

So they use super expensive soldering stations,on clean metal, and that works.

 

But, leaded solder, on non leaded, does not bind well.

 

Cut off the old plug and solder

 

Tin bare metal, solder new plug on.

What Don said - but remember - ONE LEAD AT A TIME, ?

 Don't cut through both wires at the same time. I like to secure one lead, still attached to the old plug to the battery with a rubber band, so there is no chance of any short circuit.

[Don Fry]

Yea, plays havoc with the cutter blades. The cutters were my dads. Best that man made. Melted. The modern expensive replacements are inferior, no sweat in the handles,or indeed blood, but not as good.

Is this PTSD for tools.

[Don Fry]

Mods, I beg your leave, off post.

Anyone want a job, replacing defective cells in a road car battery pack.

[Simon Clark]

Lead has been considered to be a noxious substance for some time now and the use of it in commercial electronic products has been restricted under various regulations from around 2006. The rules are quite complex, but it is best to assume that it is pretty much illegal for companies to sell products to the general public that have leaded solder.

 

Lead free solder has been developed for this reason. There are many different types but in general, they have a higher melting point which makes them more difficult to use, epsecially if your soldering iron cannot give lots of heat. Once a good joint is made, it is just as good as a leaded solder joint and in many cases is actually stronger, it is just that for us amateurs with less than perfect equipmenet and skills, it is more difficult and we are more likely to make a bad joint. 

 

If you can get leaded solder then go ahead and use it, if not then uses lead-free but make sure that you use plenty of flux and give it plenty of heat (quickly) with a good iron.

 

Simon

[Ron Gray]

 

7 hours ago, Simon Clark said:

If you can get leaded solder then go ahead and use it,

4-Max also sell leaded solder.

[Frank Skilbeck]

I haven't had problems with un-leaded solder, the only joint I have had fail many years ago was an installation where I had to tightly bend the wire near the connector when connecting the battery, it eventually failed right next to the connector. 

[EarlyBird]

11 hours ago, Rich Griff said:

Opinions please, anyone had issues/problems with the modern h+s aspect non lead solder ?

None. H&S police have not come knocking at my door.

 

Maybe because I always use un-leaded solder without any issues so I see no need to go back to the risky leaded stuff.

[Dad_flyer]

The main thing to look out for is to keep lead and lead free solder apart. If you want to re-work a joint you need the same solder type, and I keep separate solder bits. Each system works fine, but when mixed I find it does not flow and looks dirty even with lots of heat and flux.

[Rich Griff]

Thanks for the replies, yes battery leads, good idea. Keep leaded and unleaded solder and bits seperate.

 

I have a small drum of rapid electronics lead free and a large drum of resin cord solder which probably is leaded, lots of that left.

 

Order due to arrive this morning.

 

I expect to be asking questions about electric flight as and when.

 

Thanks all.

[Rich Griff]

Package arrived 11:30 approx, within time...

 

I had a brief omg moment when I looked at the battery wires, but they are both insulated by clear plastic.

 

Some reading to do about the batteries and charger, and the radio tx/Rx about binding and set up etc....

 

Moderated - sorry Rich but the code of conduct is very clear about politics. Lest stay on topic.

[Simon Chaddock]

Rich

It could be said that most electric RC aircraft will not last long enough for the solder to deteriorate!

By far the most common fault is from poor executed solder connections. On that basis it is more important to make a 'proper' solder connection where the solder bonds with sufficient area for the amps flowing through it. In my experience even in a good joint the wire strands are more likely to fracture from 'flexing' fatigue. 

 

I am not sure that Deans are that bad. They are the lightest and smallest connector for their amp capacity. As I don't suffer from arthritis (yet!) a 'bit hard' to pull apart gives me confidence they won't at the wrong time and that the electrical contact is sound! 

 

[Rich Griff]

Sorry about the politics, I consider myself told off.

 

Maybe I will get a pack of deans connectors and compare before deciding...

 

Haven't had a good look at the "better" connectors yet .

 

The battery is heavy, add motor and speed controller, will weigh and compare taking into account the Rx battery in an IC powered plane etc...we shall see.

[Outrunner]

I used to use Dean's and they are nice reliable connector's especially the genuine Dean's. Some of the copies can be devils to get apart. But the big advantage of XT60 connectors for me is they are much easier to solder up correctly. Having a bucket to push the wire into when soldering makes for a much better joint. Yes I know you can put Dean's into a jig but XT60's work so much better for me. Also I've never had an XT60 that was tricky to connect or disconnect. I also use XT30 and XT90 connectors where appropriate.

[Nigel R]

I'm on Deans for everything, they work for me.

 

Most everyone seems to have standardised on XT of whatever size, though.

[Fun Flyer]

Deans work very well.  Just don't use  a screwdriver blade to separate them!!!

[leccyflyer]

Many of my flying pals are using 4mm gold bullet connectors - they are easy to solder properly, highly flexible in terms of adding parallel connections or tapping in UBecs or by-pass connections, easy serial connections, low resistance, space saving and very cost effective. For a short time in the noughties I considered swapping over to Deans, but I just didn't get on with them. 

[john davidson 1]

I had a Deans give an intermittent contact, caused by the spring weakening,  the charger side is not shielded, also XTs are easier to pull apart with arthritic fingers

[Geoff S]

I've been using 'normal' lead/tin cored solder for most of my life - the last 70 years anyway and never had a problem nor did any of my former colleagues AFAIK.  Though I never went as far as one of them who used to keep a length in his mouth!  We even had lead water pipes but, living in a hard water area, they were probably lined with lime scale so the water wasn't actually in contact with the lead.  It was accepted practice to run the tap before using it to drink.  Of course, I'm not denying that lead is a bad thing and should be avoided (particularly in plumbing  - odd since the name is derived from lead!) just that the minimal contact involved in soldering isn't a serious issue except perhaps if you're soldering all day, every day year in, year out, which I, even as an electronics engineer, certainly wasn't.  I've got enough lead/tin cored solder to last me out so I don't anticipate changing.

 

I used to cut off XT60 connectors on new LiPos because I'd been using 4mm bullet connectors from the NiCad years but eventually I bit the bullet and replaced everything with XT60s.  I never resoldered. I always cut the wire (one at a time) and made a new connection so I was never in the position of mixing lead and lead-free solder.  Years ago, I made an arbitrary decision to have the positive battery lead a male bullet and the negative female, which seems to be opposite to most people but I made loads of adapters so battery borrowing/lending wasn't a real issue.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I moved to Deans from 4mm connectors many years ago and have remained with them and they handle 60A easily.  In the mid-noughties they did sometimes pose a problem disconnecting them but I've either developed superhuman strength or they've changed as I can't recall any tight ones in the last decade or more.  In my 4mm days I was never too comfortable with the possibility of inadvertently connecting the two conductors or reversing the polarity, depending on orientation chosen, so went with male/female connectors with a few short heatshrink sleeves between the cables (think oxy/acetylene hoses) to make it awkward to get the two ends to connect together.  I have seen mistakes made in the depths of fuselages - one instance by a clubmate with an appropriate profession...he's a sparks!  No problem with the shorted ends causing the battery to overheat - the gold plated connectors disintegrated instantaneously...

[Chris Walby]

I found Deans to be very variable around contact grip with some positively (and negatively ?) slack to a point a good dose of aerobatics might have made the plugs come apart. I did go to EC3 and EC5 for the better connection and easier soldering, but am really taken by the XT range. Firstly some suppliers sell their lipos with them already fitted, secondly they have the same protection from accidental pin contact and lastly they come with a cable/pin shroud cover which save a bit of heat shrink sleeve. 

 

There are some applications where space is a premium and bullet type connectors have to be used, but IMO best avoided if possible.

 

Nothing is fool proof to the suitably ingenious fool

 

 

[Outrunner]

When I first started electric flight I used to use 4mm bullet connectors until I managed to connect a nicad pack to itself? It got very hot very quickly and I burnt my fingers pulling apart. I soon changed to Dean's and more recently to XT60

I need something fool proof!

 

[leccyflyer]

1 hour ago, Outrunner said:

When I first started electric flight I used to use 4mm bullet connectors until I managed to connect a nicad pack to itself? It got very hot very quickly and I burnt my fingers pulling apart. I soon changed to Dean's and more recently to XT60

I need something fool proof!

 

Easily arranged to make it impossible to accidentally connect a pack to itself. Just make the lead with the male positive pin a different length than the negative female plug, so that they do not touch and then put a wrap of tape, or heatshrink to keep them apart, making it impossible to connect the two together. I fit a short length of blue Sullivan snake outer over the male pin to be extra safe. When the pack is charged it gets a green one to show it's charged.