learning to fly - paid tuition West Country?

[leccyflyer]

I'm not familiar with a Parkzone Harvard  thought I knew all of their models -it's not a UMX is it?

[David Davis 2]

10 hours ago, paul devereux said:

I have been thinking, my initial comments were very unkind and unfair about a Dorset Club- I'm as green as anything, I was given a PZ Harvard as a Christmas present, and I expected someone to help me get it to fly. It had been raining, the ground was soggy, the elevator control was working the wrong way (they said, and it turns out quite rightly, counter-intuitively up is down and vice versa ) and they said a high wing trainer was a better bet. So maybe what I perceived as a lack of help was actually good advice.

 

 

 

This reminds me of an experience I had several years ago.

 

The man who taught me how to build model aeroplanes was my Uncle Geoff who had married one of my mother's four sisters. He built beautiful free flight gliders. He was to die young of cancer but about a year before he died his wife gave birth to a baby boy, my cousin Nick. Spool on thirty or forty years and Nick expresses an interest in learning how to fly r/c. At that time I had permission to fly from a farmer's field to which we duly retired with my trusty Junior 60. There was no buddy box facility on the transmitter so I got the model up to height and handed Nick the transmitter. The model started to descend so I said, "Put in a bit more up." It started to descend more rapidly. "More up" I cried, the model by now was screaming towards the ground like a Stuka. "More Up!" I grabbed the transmitter off him and the model went into an enormous zoom! I have never seen a Junior 60 fly so quickly! Once I'd regained control I understood what had happened. I said, "Were you pushing the stick towards the top of the transmitter?" He admitted that he was. I said, "Haven't you ever seen films of David Niven hauling back on the control column of a stricken bomber while a Scottish co-pilot says 'I cannae hawd her skipper!' ?" 

 

"No," he replied.

 

He never took up the hobby. Bicycle racing was more his thing.

Edited January 12, 2023 by David Davis 2

[Don Fry]

I knew a bloke, good pilot, self taught from reed systems to proportional. 
Who; used elevator stick, up for up, down for down, throttle down for full, up for idle(as a car). His brain sorted it out. 
Aren’t there about 8 modes, not just the two common ones.

[MattyB]

2 hours ago, leccyflyer said:

I'm not familiar with a Parkzone Harvard  thought I knew all of their models -it's not a UMX is it?

I suspect he means the T28; PZ (who sadly no longer really exist) never made a Harvard to my knowledge. The T28 does look a bit Harvard-like if you squint…

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

1 hour ago, Don Fry said:

I knew a bloke, good pilot, self taught from reed systems to proportional. 
Who; used elevator stick, up for up, down for down, throttle down for full, up for idle(as a car). His brain sorted it out. 
Aren’t there about 8 modes, not just the two common ones.

One of our club members was taught by a worker at the Mandarin helicopter factory, he flies mode 2 and has the throttle / pitch reversed, Ie; stick down for full pitch and throttle.

[leccyflyer]

My pal Derek flies with throttle on the left stick, up for off, down for full throttle.

[Wookman]

Must be a reeds thing. I flew with a guy years ago who flew mode 2 with his elevator upside down.

There is a chap in France I fly with from time to time who flys rudder and elevator on the right stick and ailerons and crow brakes on the left. Left handed mode 1, even though he is right handed.

[David P Williams]

22 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

One of our club members was taught by a worker at the Mandarin helicopter factory, he flies mode 2 and has the throttle / pitch reversed, Ie; stick down for full pitch and throttle.

 

Yep, taught myself to fly model helis like that back in the early 80s. Had no help or info, and having flown full size helis it made more sense to 'pull' on collective to go up and 'push' for down. When I later joined a club and realised this wasn't 'normal' I retrained myself.

[Cuban8]

Was reading something recently about the Wrights and their early powered flights and even they couldn't make their mind up as to the best way to have the controls. I think the later machines had pitch control on a fore and aft stick for the left hand and another fore and aft stick for the right hand that controlled roll! Very unintuitive, apparently pupils were told to push the starboard side wing down by pushing the stick forward and raising it by pulling back.

They did obviously get a lot right but also a fair number of things wrong - makes you wonder where their designs would have progressed to if Wilbur Wright hadn't died so early.

[Denis Watkins]

A self taught chap came to our club some years back, and flew quite well and just wanted his A cert.

On checking, he too had learned over one year to fly elevator push for up and pull for down. The throttle too was push to slow, and pull for power.

He moved county quite soon after, so don't know how he chose to continue flying.

[paul devereux]

3 hours ago, Cuban8 said:

Was reading something recently about the Wrights and their early powered flights and even they couldn't make their mind up as to the best way to have the controls. I think the later machines had pitch control on a fore and aft stick for the left hand and another fore and aft stick for the right hand that controlled roll! Very unintuitive, apparently pupils were told to push the starboard side wing down by pushing the stick forward and raising it by pulling back.

They did obviously get a lot right but also a fair number of things wrong - makes you wonder where their designs would have progressed to if Wilbur Wright hadn't died so early.

I came across this on YouTube https://youtu.be/MLMS_QtKamg and wondered how car controls became standardised. From what I can gather, Cadillac had something like the modern layout in 1918, but it was't widely adopted until the Morris 8 copied them in the 1930s. As the Morris 8 was a best-seller, and licensed or copied around the world other manufacturers started falling into line for the convenience of drivers.

 

[Bruce Collinson]

I seem to remember that most British cars of the '60s had indicators on the R until what seemed like very good combination stalks on Triumphs became ubiquitous.   Indicators/dipswitch/trip computer L, wipers and washers R seems to have been universal only since then.

 

Also, apparently some fliers use the left stick for throttle.   Allegedly ....

 

BTC

[Cuban8]

4 hours ago, paul devereux said:

I came across this on YouTube https://youtu.be/MLMS_QtKamg and wondered how car controls became standardised. From what I can gather, Cadillac had something like the modern layout in 1918, but it was't widely adopted until the Morris 8 copied them in the 1930s. As the Morris 8 was a best-seller, and licensed or copied around the world other manufacturers started falling into line for the convenience of drivers.

 

Absolutely. They had a Model T for sale on the brilliant 'Bangers and Cash' recently. The boss, Derek Mathewson explained the controls and they were truly mad. Probably a lot due to the autocratic style of Henry Ford I and his "I thought of it so it must be right" attitude.

Amazing, but even pristene Model Ts are not very valuable.

[David Davis 2]

9 hours ago, Cuban8 said:

Absolutely. They had a Model T for sale on the brilliant 'Bangers and Cash' recently. The boss, Derek Mathewson explained the controls and they were truly mad. Probably a lot due to the autocratic style of Henry Ford I and his "I thought of it so it must be right" attitude.

Amazing, but even pristene Model Ts are not very valuable.

 

Apparently the Model A, which replaced the Model T in 1927, is more popular and can command a higher price.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

15 hours ago, Bruce Collinson said:

 

 

Also, apparently some fliers use the left stick for throttle.   Allegedly ....

 

BTC

Yes you never hear about them, they come to the field fly then go home, not like the 'others' who spend their time whinging on why their planes don't fly and when they do they crash, you hear, 'No radio, balance point too far back / not enough lead, not enough trim, I am sure something has fallen off, just to mention a few of the 'reasons' why they crashed,,,,😄

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Tony,,,I hadn't read all of the postings it's like when my wife talks I don't listen,,,🤣

I am just back from Davids and I didn't know that it was you that had been to the field with him a couple of times,

don't buy anything yet as our club has a Bixler, Calmato , durafly Tundra 2 and a F3a multi all electric and all on mode 1 and 2, most of our club fly's mode 2 as I taught them 😇 there are 3 battery's for each plane and are all charged up on site ready to fly, go to our clubs wattsapp to see who is going flying,

if it's nice I will be there tomorrow afternoon and I would love to give you some lessons, when you have flown each plane it will help you to choose somtehing that you will be more suited to fly.

 

 

[GrumpyGnome]

Now that's a great offer.....

[cymaz]

Too good to miss 

[paul devereux]

I'm astonished that this article suggest Mode 1 is the most popular in the UK:RC Mode 1 Vs Mode 2: Choose The Right Protocol (rchobbytips.com)

When you think of it, most people are right handed. Early radios were rudder only, then two channel. It made sense to put the primary control (rudder) controlled by the right thumb. When you got 'full house', the primary controls (elevator and ailerons) were still on the right hand, and the secondary, rarely used controls were relegated to the left hand (you only really need throttle for take off and landing, and rudder for complex manoeuvres). 

If all instructors taught Mode 2, life would be simpler.

 

[GrumpyGnome]

Hmm, not sure I trust this article too much.  He has no planes, and quotes drone pilots as having "yaw on the left stick, and rudder on the right"............ think the popularity comments are just his opinion rather than fact.

 

I started off with a three channel set with elevator and primary 'steering' on a single stick.  When I was taught, on a 4 channel set, I was persuaded that separating primary controls (now ele and ail) resulted in smoother flight - deffo a good thing for gliders. After a break for marriage and kids, on my return, I switched back to primary controls on right stick - can't remember why but might have been that the shop had no sets in other modes (that I could afford!) ..... have been this mode for last 20 odd years.

[David Ovenden]

The mode 1 vs mode 2 debate has been "done to death" many times previously.  Fortunately for Tony (OP) - and any other locals interested in learning to fly -  the club offers both options. So let's just be happy that the facilities and good will are there to help folk get into our fine hobby successfully. 

[Peter Christy]

On 12/01/2023 at 17:17, Bruce Collinson said:

I seem to remember that most British cars of the '60s had indicators on the R until what seemed like very good combination stalks on Triumphs became ubiquitous.   Indicators/dipswitch/trip computer L, wipers and washers R seems to have been universal only since then.

 

Also, apparently some fliers use the left stick for throttle.   Allegedly ....

 

BTC

Not just British cars! I've got a 1971 SAAB with the indicators on the right. Also had a couple of Australian Fords, back in the late 70s/early 80s which also had the indicators on the right. It was standard in all countries that drove on the left side of the road (Sweden drove on the left back when the SAAB 96 was designed).

 

Putting the indicators on the left happened when the manufacturers were trying to save money by standardising the switchgear, and right hand drive cars were in a minority...

 

Wonder if we have a claim for prejudice...? 😉

 

--

Pete

 

[John Lee]

9 hours ago, paul devereux said:

I'm astonished that this article suggest Mode 1 is the most popular in the UK:RC Mode 1 Vs Mode 2: Choose The Right Protocol (rchobbytips.com)

 

 

Not according to the survey here in 2010, 73.8% using Mode 2:

 

 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I haven’t driven a Japanese car for some years so I  don’t know the current layout but they certainly retained what to me, is the logical positioning of indicators on the right in cars for the UK market for many years after European standardisation, based no doubt on LHD. 

 

It’s always irked me that our own manufacturers went to the LHD layout so quickly. I’ve got other things to do with my left hand away from the steering wheel and it was so easy to flick an indicator switch with a right finger.
 

I wonder if this is at the root of the scarcity of indicator use so often observed?

[leccyflyer]

1 hour ago, John Lee said:

Not according to the survey here in 2010, 73.8% using Mode 2:

 

 

That would certainly be consistent with what I've observed.

 

The article referred to is horrible. Full of inaccuracies and reads like it's from a particularly bad ARTF manual, dragged through Google Translate into Klingon, then dragged backwards into Swahili before being dragged into American and spewed out.