Instinct, reflex action, in tune with your tx and model aircraft...

[Rich Griff]

Please bare with me on this one....and read carefully....

 

When I drive our manual gear shift non disability car and press the middle floor pedal with my right foot, I expect the cars brakes to come on, which they do.

 

The middle pedal is the brake pedal on every car, van, truck and bus in this country unless is automatic transmission and/or a "specialist" vehicle.

You get the picture.

 

Model aircraft flying is different as we use a tx with sticks, and use different "modes", modes of our own personal choice, but sometimes a "forced choice.

 

Mode 1.

The new model arrived with tx etc. Mode 1.

 

The left stick controls elevator in the push away/pull towards you fashion, along with a "trim" button, either the very quick mechanical type or the rather slowwwww digital variety.

 

This trim button is usually quite close to the stick control.

 

All with me so far ?  Good.

 

If it transpires that the elevator trim button controls throttle trim, and the throttle stick trim button  controls elevator trim, would it be fair to say that the tx ( it came with the model ) is faulty, not of merchantable quality, not fit for purpose, and in need of a product "recall" ?

 

Remember, it's mode 1.

 

Thoughts please....

[Jon H]

Sounds like mechanical mode 1 and software mode 2? or something is wonkey on the inside. 

[leccyflyer]

Sounds like it doesn't need a new thread, just an accurate description of what the controls do. A video clip might help.

[John Lee]

It was quite standard on a number of transmitters and assignable on some others. It has the advantage of being able to trim the elevator without taking your fingers/thumb off the elevator stick.

Edited August 8, 2023 by John Lee

[Sheepish]

I have had this on a mode swap on Spektrum DX6i some time ago.

 

It was interesting to sort out and I can remember having an interesting first flight before I realised the trims weren’t quite normal 😂

 

As Jon says the mechanical swap is one thing the software is another.

 

On OpenTx it’s is also possible to allocate which ever trim you wish to which ever channel too and I guess it’s the same on other systems.🤔

[leccyflyer]

Does the throttle trim actually cause the elevator position to change in use?

 

That is what is being claimed here, but is that what is actually happening?

 

I don't recall seeing that mentioned in the other thread. 

[Frank Skilbeck]

Yep this is possible on quite few transmitters, a clubmate does this on his Futaba tx. Once you are aware of it it's fine, much easier to handle than random reversed trims that another clubmate managed to program in.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

On my Futaba FX-30 you can attribute any stick to any rx outlet, and the same with the trims, but I can't see the point there will always be a time when you will forget what does what, ie, dropping the throttle trim on landing on mode 2,,,

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Not if you set all your models that way.  I'm also lucky enough to have an auto trim facility which is IMO superior to either method.

 

I do get called on to do quite a few maidens for other members but apart from any unfamiliarity with trim locations, I don't find any difficulty swapping.

 

Is it that much of a problem to adapt though?  I wonder if owners of vintage Bentleys have trouble coping with their central throttle pedal - I'd be happy to take one off their hands (feet?) if it's causing them confusion with their modern cars...

 

More realistically, how many of us ride motorcycles with gear changes on opposite sides?  Or with reversed up for down sequences?  I have no problem swapping between bikes with the former and I'm sure many cope similarly with the latter.

[Dickw]

All my models are now set up with "crossed trims", I.e. elevator/aileron on right stick with elevator/aileron trim on left. I find it very useful that way.

 

Dick

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Yes, far easier.

[Rich Griff]

The elevator trim does nothing, nothing at all as far as elevator trim is concerned. But the tx does make a bleep when elevator trim is used.

 

In the members opinion, is this model safe to fly ?

 

I say no, it should be subject to a recall in my view.

 

Brake pedal and all that.

 

But what do I know.....

 

Didn't know about that elevator trim idea john. The tx is a basic none programmable item, by the end user at any rate.

 

Thanks Jon, it's a faulty product and is going back to the shop.

 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

See my suggestion on your other thread.  What stabilisation mode are you in when static testing?

[leccyflyer]

2 minutes ago, Rich Griff said:

The elevator trim does nothing, nothing at all as far as elevator trim is concerned. But the tx does make a bleep when elevator trim is used.

 

In the members opinion, is this model safe to fly ?

 

I say no, it should be subject to a recall in my view.

 

Brake pedal and all that.

 

But what do I know.....

 

Didn't know about that elevator trim idea john. The tx is a basic none programmable item, by the end user at any rate.

 

Thanks Jon, it's a faulty product and is going back to the shop.

 

That isn't what you said in the other thread Rich.

 

You said.

 

"Also, elevator digital trim, pressed either way, elevator moves slightly.".

 

 

 

Another reason why it is preferable to keep the discussion of a single topic to one thread, is the ease of being able to quote replies in the thread, which is far from straightforward between threads on this platform.

[John Lee]

4 minutes ago, Rich Griff said:

The elevator trim does nothing, nothing at all as far as elevator trim is concerned. But the tx does make a bleep when elevator trim is used.

 

That contradicts what you say in your first post:

 

1 hour ago, Rich Griff said:

If it transpires that the elevator trim button controls throttle trim, and the throttle stick trim button  controls elevator trim

 

 

As Dick, Martin, Frank & I say the use of crossed trims is a (admittedly slightly unusual) feature on a number of transmitters.

 

What transmitter is it and what does its manual say on the subject?Is there an illustration of the transmitter functions? 

[Rich Griff]

Bentley point taken, may I should rephrase all cars etc. To all modern cars IE 1999 onwards.

 

Point taken about bikes as well but the owners manual will state stuff about that.

 

The tx is a basic none programmable tx that came with the model, a toprc tx. No mention of swapped trim functions in the manual.

 

Lost all confidence in this model. I will not fly it as Perkins suggests as it will only end in tragidy. No refund for a crashed model !

 

Even rcme article mentions frantic retrim on gyro switch use 

 

David says in effect don't use gyro switch whilst in flight.

 

Apparently a stiff binding control rod is not so much of a problem. It is to me. Horses for courses

 

Safe flying is no accident.

 

I take the point of programming tx functions to your tastes, I do not have a programmable tx yet but I'm going to have to get one for micro RC stuff.

[leccyflyer]

30 minutes ago, Dickw said:

All my models are now set up with "crossed trims", I.e. elevator/aileron on right stick with elevator/aileron trim on left. I find it very useful that way.

 

Dick

That sounds like a great idea. For a model which is well out of trim on the critical flight controls, being able to use the left hand to put several clicks of trim in on the left hand side of the transmitter, without taking your thumb/fingers off the right stick sounds much easier. I usually try to use my left hand on the right stick trim, but find it tricky to manage.

[EarlyBird]

20 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

the ease of being able to quote replies in the thread, which is far from straightforward between threads on this platform.

 

Easy enough.

On 05/08/2023 at 13:17, Rich Griff said:

After reading the recent article in rcme ( June issue ? ) Magazine, I took the plunge...

 

I would have liked the spitfire version ( the wife loves them ) but settled on the bf109 version, mode 1.

 

Anyone else got one of these ?

 

The "digital trim" on elevator does not bleep when given down trim command and only bleeps per " pull" one bleep at a time rather than "multi bleeps" when held in up command. No "central bleep" when system detects "central position" and no trim movement seen on elevator at all.

 

Throttle trim bleeps on up and down throttle trim but does not seem to effect maximum power or throttle off.

 

Anyone else having this problem ?

 

Replies appreciated before I contact supplier and Perkins...

 

Not flown yet as suspect a problem and it's far tooooooooooooo rough and wet here...

 

Thanks

 

Use the "+" not Quote and the quote will follow to another topic with a small pop up box. Having said that two topics on the same subject is confusing.

 

Steve

[leccyflyer]

Aye, in theory, but I did that just the other day and it certainly confused some people , who thought that the quoted post was by the thread starter, rather than the person who made the post😄

[EarlyBird]

3 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

Aye, in theory, but I did that just the other day and it certainly confused some people , who thought that the quoted post was by the thread starter, rather than the person who made the post😄

I thought it was odd that you didn't know. I remember that but you did it like this

which did confuse me at the time. 🤣

 

Steve

[Chris Walby]

Standard, what's standard

 

Bicycles in Canada have the front break on the left handlebar. USA like using pedal back rear brakes, oh and then there is the fixed wheel brigade.

 

I drive manual and automatic cars and interchange right or left foot breaking without any issues.

 

PS how often are you going to need to trim the model and is it really a problem if you know what you have to do with this particular model?

[Brian Cooper]

Re: the original post. 

 

It is quite simple. The trims have been set to "cross over". 

This is a feature which is selectable on many transmitters. 

It can be switched back if you don't like it. . . No problem.  

[kc]

Mode 1 pilots have more difficulty moving trims anyway because we need 2 hands on the sticks most of the time.  Having trims opposite might be easier.   

 

Have you ever thought that right handed people driving right hand drive manual cars have only to coordinate left hand ( gear lever ) with left leg (clutch )whilst  changing gear.   However for left hand drive cars the driver has to coordinate the left leg with the right hand whilst changing gear.   Ok for righthanded people but more difficult for the lefthanded it seems.  

The original Morris Minor ( not the Issigonnis one but the early 1930's one) had a central throttle pedal too.  By 1935 when the Morris 8 came out they were normal layout.  But what is 'normal'?  The Model T Ford although for a long time the worlds most common car had some different pedal layout too I think. 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I wonder whether there's any legal specification for pedal layout?

 

I never saw the logic in standardising indicator stalk position to the LHD norm.  Japanese RHD cars retained the indicator on the right for many years - may still do for all I know - and to me it makes far more sense to be able to use it while gear changing and operating the handbrake with the left hand while maintaining control of steering.

[leccyflyer]

It's far from certain what's actually happening here, as the reports of the symptoms posted by Rich are directly conflicting. 

 

If the question would have been asked in the original thread it would have had the context to indicate that this is one of the very simple budget transmitters provided with the TopRC 450mm (and 400mm) stabilised foamie "warbirds".

 

It looks as though it is either faulty, has been set up incorrectly at the manufacturer or the description of the symptoms of how the trims are operating are not as clear as in the original post. It's unlikely that cross over trims are user selectable - the manual certainly makes no mention of that as an option. 

 

Also, the Top RC transmitter, according to the manual, doesn't even have a throttle trim - the button on the left hand side of the TX is the U-Turn button- that's on a Mode 2 transmitter. Like I said earlier, I can't see a need for a throttle trim on a model of this type - what would it be used for?