Jon H Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 I dont want to get drawn into this in a big way but i do have some relevant comments to make. Kevin more or less has it sussed. The whole selling the business/licence built etc idea is a fantasy. Half the parts did not have drawings, just ancient programs stored in the machine the part was made on. Loose the machine and the rest is pretty meaningless. The other half of the parts did not have up to date drawings as updates made along the way were never translated into updated drawings for some reason. Even if you did have all of the drawings then what? Do you have the machines available? How many parts do you want to make? 1000off? yea ok maybe, but given historic sales that might take you 10 years to get shot of. Also how do you put the engines together? There is no documentation covering the assembly of the engines as the contents of my brain has not been written down. And what about testing, tech support etc. You are totally on your own and have to figure it out yourself with customers calling you asking for advice. No doubt you could get away with parroting modelling folk lore and telling people what they want to hear, but its not really a winning strategy in my view and will not cure most problems. I also have a dim view of the carb placement whinge as the only reason most cant lower the tank is because they cant be bothered to do the work. There are a few exceptions, but 99% of the time its just laziness and that was so frustrating. I have always managed so i do not see the problem. Anyway to do it properly you need to start from scratch with at least half a million quid to get started for machines, premises etc. You then need staff members costing you at least another half million over 5 years and not expecting to make any money for at least the first 5 years. As i said before, if it was super easy to make money selling model engines everyone would be at it. That isnt to say i dont think it could be done, it could, there is potential, but if i had a million quid sat here i certainly would not be risking it on building engines. The whole Uk cottage industry thing is also our biggest weakness. We have so many great ideas in this country, but this 'man in a shed' mentality usually prevents them from getting anywhere. Unfortunately enthusiasm alone is not enough. Without a real business mentality behind it its never going to get anywhere. On KC's comments about claiming on cards etc, its a non starter. The inline engines were sold as development/prototype items with no warranty. This was made clear to all who bought them, usually in writing. I made it very clear things might go wrong and the engine may be unusable for months at a time. This often fell on deaf ears and more than once i heard a comment to the effect of 'its a laser, they are always perfect'. No, they arent, but this expectation of perfection clouded the vision of many who bought them despite me stating very clearly that it was not a finished product and buying it meant you accepted certain risks. Now, when it has gone wrong some of these people are up in arms. I see it from both sides. Yes, the problem should have been dealt with faster and more efficiently (or not been a problem in the first place), however, buying a development product with no warranty and no track record was a risk you knew about so why are you upset now when its all gone wrong? You were warned, and went ahead anyway. With all that said, the issue will be fixed eventually, and the engines can be used in the meanwhile. To cover Neil's departure, that was a different story as the manufacturing company remained. Had i left and the manufacturing kept going, maybe it would have continued as i am the 4th person to assemble the engines. But, with the manufacturing company closing that was more or less the end of it. Even if i wanted to carry on, i could not have done it. And as i have wanted out for some time, i had no desire to continue anyway even if i had my own company. i have to admit, i do not understand a great deal of the fuss that has surrounded the closure of laser. I for one an delighted to be out of the modelling industry. I knew i was unhappy where i was but had no idea how unhappy until now. I was humbled by the messages of support and thanks i received following the announcement, and am very appreciative, but i also received a more than equal number of people whinging about how unacceptable it was they couldnt get their 20 year old engine serviced any more and it was all my fault. After a week away at my new job reading 'laser' chat on facebook or forums just makes me angry. I cant pinpoint why, i just have an intense hatred of the whole subject, the hobby as a whole, and feel depressed just thinking about it. yet here i am again, sucked back in to a conversation that really has nothing to do with me any more, trying to half defend a company that no longer exists. I shouldnt really have posted here at all really as it just causes me stress i dont need. The best advice i think i can give any of you at this point is to just let it go and never ever accept a job within the modelling industry. 4 3 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Hopefully all the noise and associated stress will soon disappear, and you can enjoy the building and flying side again. Best wishes for the future. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zflyer Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Walk away.A new hobby may beckon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 I can only hope that the whingers were under the impression that you had a financial interest in the firm and didn’t know that you were simply an employee, Jon. Perhaps you might get the odd apology if any of them are big enough. Now that this is clear, it’s to be hoped that such comments will stop and you can immerse yourself in your new career direction. I do hope you can start to rediscover the joys of modelling purely for your own pleasure and relaxation very soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 What a depressing read Jon's posting is. I certainly was unaware of his actual feelings for his job and having had to endure a position that I loathed at one stage in my career, I sympathise. Laser has gone, nothing could have been done to avoid it so best to move on for everyone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan p Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Being able to sympathise with Jon, having been there suffered that. It is always those willing to help and support others that end up carrying the load . He has always been exemplary in help and advise which he was not under any obligation to give. Go forward and do that which will give you satisfaction and enjoyment, enjoy life not suffer it. Best wishes for the future. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Excellent post Jon. You have now said enough on the subject. It is time to walk away from the past and move forward. You still have a lot to gain (and possible give) from this hobby and though you currently have a very sour taste in your mouth it won't last. Soon you will be able to look back and realise that you aren't one of the losers. Everything has its time and that of Laser Engines has now passed. The reason so many people are complaining. They will now have to pay the price for quality. My message for all those who own Lasers. Stop complaining. Jon has offered to assist you. He does not have to do so and can walk away from it at any time. If you have a negative comment, keep it it to yourself and not on here. We do not want to lose Jon (or anybody else) from the forum who offers help and advice freely, which in other circumstances could be costly. Maybe it is time to close this thread. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 No, the thread should not be closed. I see not posts of a complaint nature on here, most are discussing the situation and there are some who are unsure about what is happening with regard to orders (unfulfilled despite being paid) and ‘repair’ work that has been promised. It’s all well and good for Jon to post on here but with respect he is no longer an employee of Laser and it would be rather nice if an official Laser (AGC) response to those affected was made (not through this forum). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottenRow Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 I’m not really sure that the majority of the posts in this thread could really be described at complaints, more concerns from those who have engines with what to them appear to have an uncertain future. None of the posts in the three pages have stated anything negative about Jon, quite the opposite actually. At the end of the day, nobody HAS to read this thread, or any other. Brian. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 Well said Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Having read through, thread looks reasonable to me. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 5 minutes ago, RottenRow said: I’m not really sure that the majority of the posts in this thread could really be described at complaints, more concerns from those who have engines with what to them appear to have an uncertain future. None of the posts in the three pages have stated anything negative about Jon, quite the opposite actually. At the end of the day, nobody HAS to read this thread, or any other. Brian. Agree 100%. I have no particular interest in this topic, never having owned a Laser engine and never likely too, but there are IKMO, far too many unnecessary calls to close perfectly reasonable threads in this forum. This thread was started in good faith, to discuss continued customer service issues into the future and ought not be closed. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocker Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Typical .Never had any problems with my Laser Engines. Now Laser are no more .Flew my Wots Wot today with a Laser 80 and the prop came off in mid flight .Loosing the prop and washer .Anyone now what size nut and what thread do I need for the Laser 80 ???.I am sure it is a standard nut but need to know what size and thread it is ,so I know what to look for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Not sure off hand but likely to be a standard metric coarse thread? However, prop nots tend to be a fairly high grade steel so you might do better by approaching the spares agents (elect?) Model Shop Leeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocker Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Did not realise Leeds Models where doing the spares Thanks I give them a ring in the morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Sorry, but I thought that the more we dwell on the subject the more it is going to have a negative effect on Jon. After all he did put a lot of heart into the company that employed him. Having reread the thread I now agree that a lot of you, like me are 100% behind Jon. Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who do not understand the workings of commerce and commercial decisions. With regards the state of play following the closure of Laser. I think you will find that small internal combustion engines suitable for our hobby will become a lot more expensive and very soon, due specifically to supply and demand. In addition the raw materials to build them will also be more expensive due to the alternative demands for them (just like balsa wood). This is not doom and gloom for our hobby, but a wake up call that ours is catching up with others and that if you want quality it comes at a price. May I suggest that to continue this conversation regarding the future of model ic engines we do so on another thread. In fact I think I will start one, if anybody is interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Yes - by all means do. While this thread stays primarily focussed on Laser engine matters and without any unwarranted personal comments we’re quite happy to leave it to run. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 2 hours ago, Ron Gray said: some who are unsure about what is happening with regard to orders (unfulfilled despite being paid) and ‘repair’ work that has been promised. Just to cover this, all paid orders will be sent. Some are delayed while rocker covers are manufactured but they will all go out. I popped in to the factory to collect my P45 and very few orders are still in limbo. The same is true for repairs to the inline engines, it will get done, i just need the part. IT might be possible for customers to do the work, but i will do a few and see if i can come up with a sensible procedure. I also briefed Geoff on how to find all the contact info i had saved, access to the email and modified the website to remove the contact details as the email and phone are now outgoing only. Rocker, M8x1.25 or 5/16x24 unf depending on the age. When it comes to spares things with MSL are not set up yet so there is no point in hounding them. Give it a few months. That's probably it from me for a bit. With my employment sorted its now time to deal with moving house so that should keep me busy for a while. 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 2 hours ago, Rocker said: Typical .Never had any problems with my Laser Engines. Now Laser are no more .Flew my Wots Wot today with a Laser 80 and the prop came off in mid flight .Loosing the prop and washer .Anyone now what size nut and what thread do I need for the Laser 80 ???.I am sure it is a standard nut but need to know what size and thread it is ,so I know what to look for M8 metric course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Ok. Done that. I was contemplating a short while ago buying a new one, but now I think those that are left should be bought by someone who appreciates them enough to build a model them and fly them. Engines are for using, not sitting in a glass case (until they are worn out). These days I mainly fly electric. Just read Jon's latest post. I think he will need a removal van just for the Spitfires. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 1 hour ago, Jon H said: That's probably it from me for a bit. A true gent to the end, many thanks Jon. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Cracknell Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Sign of things to come.....? S/H Laser 100 just sold on EBay for £510...! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 17 minutes ago, Robert Cracknell said: Sign of things to come.....? S/H Laser 100 just sold on EBay for £510...! A real nut job,,,🤢 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 1 hour ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said: A real nut job,,,🤢 Ebay loves em ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem65d Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 I would love to know how we in the US can get any parts for the Laser engines we have bought. MSL does not ship to the US or any other country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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