Electric Cars.

[Eric Robson]

On 03/03/2024 at 13:28, Shaun Walsh said:

Why is it that you always get a puncture in the tyre with the most tread remaining and not the one that's almost bald?

Deeper treads are more likely to retain screws etc. My previous car a Mercedes B class was the most puncture prone car I ever owned, two nearly new tyres written off, one by a broken bottle in the road side and the other with a chisel from a jack hammer.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

1 hour ago, Eric Robson said:

Deeper treads are more likely to retain screws etc. My previous car a Mercedes B class was the most puncture prone car I ever owned, two nearly new tyres written off, one by a broken bottle in the road side and the other with a chisel from a jack hammer.

'A Beginner",,,

Christmas 1970 delivering presents 3 punctures en 2 days, I ended up leaving the car on the side of the road Christmas day.

[Don Fry]

Mind Paul, I moved to France in 2006. Since then, I’ve had doing 12000 km a year, far more punctures per year than I ever had in the Uk, where I probably averaged 60,000 km. Mostly screws. Tradesmen being careless. 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I thought it was just me.  I’ve had numerous punctures over the years - everything from screws, nails, blackthorn, to the operating bar from a Yale lock!  The first thing I did when buying a new car was to buy a spare wheel and jack to replace the stupid inflation kit - use of which means that most places won’t repair a puncture! One wouldn’t have been much use when I slashed a huge gash in a tyre on a stone while pulling into a Cornish passing place a year or so ago. 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

1 hour ago, Don Fry said:

Mind Paul, I moved to France in 2006. Since then, I’ve had doing 12000 km a year, far more punctures per year than I ever had in the Uk, where I probably averaged 60,000 km. Mostly screws. Tradesmen being careless. 

First puncture on a motorbike last year ( 50.000klm + on each of them in the last 10 years ) on my cars in 45 years, one 8mm bolt 4 years ago,and a sliced tyre wall last year, and you guessed it, no spare !.

I won't mention my 2cv that I had in the 80's, probably 20+ punctures from blackthorns, and now my garden mower 3 from blackthorns.( neighbour's 65metre blackthorn bush) 

 

 

[Erfolg]

It appears that "What Car" magazine have tested electric cars under real world conditions.

 

The findings are that Evs range have a "one third less range" than advertised.

 

The tests were undertaken on a 60 mile loop, on a test track. They were done in the summer and winter over a number of years. The vehicles were left outside, overnight. On average their findings is that the range is 29.9% less than the official "Worldwide Harmonised Light Vehicle Test Procedure" figure.

 

Although not confined to EVs, it does not surprise that the official and advertised figures differ, although not necessarily by such a substantial value.

 

Apparently "honk Honk"  (who ever they are), gas reported that a survey of 66 independent  dealerships, that second hand  EVs are becoming harder to sell.

 

AS with all things the situations will change with time, although I can comprehend why many have reservations with respect to EVs. Particularly if it would be the only vehicle available within a family. Even though retired, normally undertaking short journeys locally, in the last few weeks I have undertaken 3 journeys (return) of between 130 and 200 miles. My nearest model shop would be 140 miles (hence I no longer go).

 

 

[Tim Kearsley]

I don't think there's any surprise in finding that real-world range is substantially less than WLTP range.  I guess the same is true of petrol and diesel vehicles.  The real problem with all these quoted ranges is that there are just so many variables that affect range that meaningful comparisons are next to impossible. 

My Tesla Model 3 Performance, over the life of the car (3.5 years and 16,149 miles) has achieved 281 Watt-hours per mile, or 3.56 miles/kWh.  The battery is nominally 75kWh, so simple arithmetic gives a range of 267 miles.  But that depends on weather, driving style, the topography of the route etc, etc.  I suppose WLTP has the advantage that, because the parameters of the testing are very specific and controlled, the quoted ranges are comparable between vehicles.  But it's a mistake to think anything close to the WLTP range will be achieved in real life.

[GrumpyGnome]

It's only like the fuel consumption figures for ic vehicles... some of those too are largely unobtainable as well.

 

It's advertising - take everything with a large pinch of salt.

 

And exaggerations are not confined to electric vehicles!

[Ron Gray]

Real world range of my Ioniq 5 based on my driving over the last 6 months, in warmer weather (last September / October) I was getting just over 4 miles per kWh which gave it a range of just over 300 miles. In colder weather this dropped to just over 3 miles per kWh which gave it a range of 240 miles. The manufactures say 315 miles.

 

I really don't care what magazines say, these are my figures based on my real world and the resultant range plus the expansion of the charging infrastructure gives me no range fear.

Edited March 13 by Ron Gray

[Brian Cooper]

I have a new Nissan Qashqai. 

The wheels are driven entirely by electricity but the electricity is powered/recharged by an onboard  petrol engine. 

 

Therefore, range is not a problem. 

It sips petrol at a leisurely 55+mpg and, obviously, refuelling takes just a couple of minutes. 

 

Basically it is an electric vehicle which can actually go somewhere....... and get home again too. 

No worries.  

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

20 minutes ago, Brian Cooper said:

I have a new Nissan Qashqai. 

The wheels are driven entirely by electricity but the electricity is powered/recharged by an onboard  petrol engine. 

 

Therefore, range is not a problem. 

It sips petrol at a leisurely 55+mpg and, obviously, refuelling takes just a couple of minutes. 

 

Basically it is an electric vehicle which can actually go somewhere....... and get home again too. 

No worries.  

So where does it save the planet from pollution ?.

[Learner]

37 minutes ago, Brian Cooper said:

I have a new Nissan Qashqai. 

The wheels are driven entirely by electricity but the electricity is powered/recharged by an onboard  petrol engine. 

 

Therefore, range is not a problem. 

It sips petrol at a leisurely 55+mpg and, obviously, refuelling takes just a couple of minutes. 

 

Basically it is an electric vehicle which can actually go somewhere....... and get home again too. 

No worries.  

Seems overly complicated for no real gain, same as  the must hyped hybrids that aren't much more efficient.My 15 yr old old diesel does over 60mpg average. 

 

 

Edited March 14 by Learner

[Brian Cooper]

17 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

So where does it save the planet from pollution ?.

I am sure it doesn't pretend to save the planet, but it pumps out considerably less pollution than a power station which generates electricity,  and is far more convenient.  

 

And yes, my old diesel car also did 60+mpg. . . Getting less from a gallon of fuel is what they call "progress". . 🙄  

 

Ideally, we need cars which are powered by wind, rain, grey skies and moonlight... lol. 

[Tim Kearsley]

48 minutes ago, Brian Cooper said:

I have a new Nissan Qashqai. 

The wheels are driven entirely by electricity but the electricity is powered/recharged by an onboard  petrol engine. 

 

Therefore, range is not a problem. 

It sips petrol at a leisurely 55+mpg and, obviously, refuelling takes just a couple of minutes. 

 

Basically it is an electric vehicle which can actually go somewhere....... and get home again too. 

No worries.  

That's just about the daftest idea I've ever heard of!  If you're going to have all the pollution and emissions of an IC engine than just use it to drive the wheels for goodness sake, not add another layer of inefficiency by using it power a generator!!  Someone at Nissan needs a psych evaluation.....

[Learner]

5 minutes ago, Brian Cooper said:

 

 

Ideally, we need cars which are powered by wind, rain, grey skies and moonlight... lol. 

Now there's an idea, sounds like an election promise😆

[Shaun Walsh]

3 minutes ago, Brian Cooper said:

I am sure it doesn't pretend to save the planet, but it pumps out considerably less pollution than a power station which generates electricity,  and is far more convenient.  

 

And yes, my old diesel car also did 60+mpg. . . Getting less from a gallon of fuel is what they call "progress". . 🙄  

 

Ideally, we need cars which are powered by wind, rain, grey skies and moonlight... lol. 

I believe that the Honda MMD system works in a similar way. Petrol engine drives a generator which powers a motor driving the wheels, excess energy is stored in the battery for use later. This means that the vehicle can operate on electric power only then top up the battery by running the petrol engine at its most efficient rpm or run engine and motor together for bursts of high power. It also removes the need for a gearbox although there is a dog clutch that connects the petrol engine directly to the wheels for improved high speed efficiency. An interesting system.

[Learner]

2 minutes ago, Tim Kearsley said:

That's just about the daftest idea I've ever heard of!  If you're going to have all the pollution and emissions of an IC engine than just use it to drive the wheels for goodness sake, not add another layer of inefficiency by using it power a generator!!  Someone at Nissan needs a psych evaluation.....

They do seem to be selling well, so what seems like a daft idea to some maybe not for others.

[Shaun Walsh]

4 minutes ago, Tim Kearsley said:

That's just about the daftest idea I've ever heard of!  If you're going to have all the pollution and emissions of an IC engine than just use it to drive the wheels for goodness sake, not add another layer of inefficiency by using it power a generator!!  Someone at Nissan needs a psych evaluation.....

Not necessarily daft.
It gets around the future ban on pure ICE vehicles.

It removes the friction losses in the gearbox because it doesn't have one.

It enables the engine rpm to be independent of wheel rpm so the engine can be run at its most efficient settings improving fuel consumption and reducing pollution.

[Tim Kearsley]

"It gets around the future ban on pure ICE vehicles."

 

I'm sure you've hit the nail on the head there Shaun.  Sounds like the real reason for such stupidity.

[Piers Bowlan]

Thanks for the explanation Shawn, makes a bit more sense (I think? 🤔)

[Frank Skilbeck]

16 minutes ago, Brian Cooper said:

I am sure it doesn't pretend to save the planet, but it pumps out considerably less pollution than a power station which generates electricity,  and is far more convenient.  

 

And yes, my old diesel car also did 60+mpg. . . Getting less from a gallon of fuel is what they call "progress". . 🙄  

 

Ideally, we need cars which are powered by wind, rain, grey skies and moonlight... lol. 

Diesel contains about 10kwh of energy per litre, Petrol less than 8.9 and even less with the added alcohol, plus a diesel engine is slightly more efficient. But at 55 mpg you petrol/electric is doing around 1.35 miles per kwh.

[EvilC57]

The most well established hybrid system is that used by Toyota, which shares power to the wheels between a petrol engine and electric motor/generators via a planetary gearbox. Efficient, and extremely reliable as it turns out, which is why millions of Toyota Prius hybrids have been used for years all over the world as taxis.

[Learner]

11 minutes ago, EvilC57 said:

The most well established hybrid system is that used by Toyota, which shares power to the wheels between a petrol engine and electric motor/generators via a planetary gearbox. Efficient, and extremely reliable as it turns out, which is why millions of Toyota Prius hybrids have been used for years all over the world as taxis.

Taxis are mostly big black chuggy diesels in my town.

[Jim Hearnden 1]

37 minutes ago, Tim Kearsley said:

That's just about the daftest idea I've ever heard of!  If you're going to have all the pollution and emissions of an IC engine than just use it to drive the wheels for goodness sake, not add another layer of inefficiency by using it power a generator!!  Someone at Nissan needs a psych evaluation.....

Not daft at all. The petrol will probably be a Miller cycle or Atkinson engine so super efficient & running at it optimum. By running it to a generator it doesn't need to vary speed. My Mitsubishi hybrid Outlander gets around 40MPG average over the 2 plus years I have had it. I can do 20-25miles purely on battery in the summer, which for travelling to our local towns mean no petrol. 

Yes a dirty diesel would possibly get a few more MPG BUT it will be considerably more polluting & secondly given the fantastically fine tolerances modern diesels run at if it goes wrong. There will be a struggle to fix it. Been there & got the T shirt. Also for short journeys it will struggle to light up the DPF to get a clean exhaust. 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

So what are the gains / losses, petrol = generator=charger=battery= controller=motors, some sort of perpetual motion, also carrying around 300 kilos of batteries, or 100 kilos of petrol motor and another 80 kilos of fuel + tank + 12v battery,

Am I missing something ?.