John Lee Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Jeffrey Cottrell 2 said: Taking as a baseline everyone's favourite 2200 3s 40c. Current (ahem) HK price is £10.43 If you only buy one, shipping is £25.83 totalling £36.26 (ouch). However, if you buy two, cost is £20.86 but shipping is still the same at £25.83 so £23.34/pack. Buy 3 it's even better. 3 packs @ 10.43 is £31.29, but shipping only goes up to £33.06 so totals out at £21.45/pack. That's competitive. RapidRC do Turnigy packs but they want £15.99 for a 25c pack, and shipping pushes that up to £21.29, much the same as HK. I did to try to compare prices for three packs, but Rapid only had one in stock. 4Max have Purple Power packs (pretty good imho) at £23.50 but shipping is a whopping £9.99 so £33.49 for one pack. Buying three gets better. Shipping stays at £9.99. so cost/ pack comes down to £26.83. Better, but still some £5 more than HK. So HK global not as uncompetitive as you would assume. Food for thought Jeff Overlander charge a flat £5 for shipping LiPos, or free if the order is over £120. On you examples Jeff 25C work out at £20.65 & 35C £22.65 if you order 3. Even more competitive if you can get an order to over £120 with your mates as, of course, there is a very wide selection to choose from. I ordered from them on the afternoon of 17 May & the batteries arrived the following day. At Weston Park Century UK were doing a deal on 3x2200 35C Overlanders which worked out at about £17 each, I did not need any but 3 of my Clubmates filled their boots. Edited July 14, 2022 by John Lee Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Cottrell 2 Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 Hi Guys EarlyBird Guess we'll have to agree to differ on our interpretation of the rules. It's all interpretation anyway, isn't it? Maybe more on that later. Graham Hinges on what you would call significant savings. I guess you should shop around for the best price on whatever size of LiPo you need at the time. More later. John. Thanks for the tip on Overlander. Their price for 2200 3s is certainly competitive. However, the price on 2650 4s maybe not so much. Anyway, I have placed an order with HK for some LiPos, so that should prove something either way. Used to run my Riot on 2650 4s Turnigy packs. Only ones I found that fit in the battery compartment without mods. However I have a couple of other models using the same battery, and I haven't got enough to go round. Reverted back to 3s for the Riot, but it's a lot less fun. So ordered three Turnigy 2650 4s packs. Total price inc shipping came out at £71.85, or £23.95/pack. Equivalent at Overlander would have been £44.99 or at 4Max £39.50 but with a blanket £9.99 postage. That's what I mean about significant price difference. Anyway, ordering from HK might prove whether our interpretation of the tax rules is correct. Watch this space Jeff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Lewis 3 Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 If the seller has collected UK VAT then it should be on the invoice/recipt/order confirmation which is how you can prove that you have paid the VAT, and it certainly is, very clearly, with Ali Express E bay Amazon etc. Never seen VAT itemmised on any HK Invoice. However, you might just get lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinFlynn Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Philip Lewis 3 said: If the seller has collected UK VAT then it should be on the invoice/recipt/order confirmation which is how you can prove that you have paid the VAT, and it certainly is, very clearly, with Ali Express E bay Amazon etc. Never seen VAT itemmised on any HK Invoice. However, you might just get lucky. Here you are. If you order from the EU warehouse EU VaT is included. E 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 16 minutes ago, FlyinFlynn said: Here you are. If you order from the EU warehouse EU VaT is included. E We can only buy from Global in the UK. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Lewis 3 Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 Exactly, and when you do shop on global that message strangely disapears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Philip Lewis 3 said: Exactly, and when you do shop on global that message strangely disapears. Oh yes, it's a demonstration of how tax is shown when it is included using EU as an example and as the message is not there for Global then tax is not included. Thanks for that @FlyinFlynn. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 The EU Vat may be misleading. To the extent that Brussels are in disagreement with the UK. From what I have read, it seems that the EU takes the position that any goods etc, that pass in to the EU are subject to EU Vat. That some items may then go on a further journey out of the EU, does not matter. Having been in the EU has added value. On that basis any items coming form the EU or anywhere else are still subject to UK VAT (as now distinct from EU VAT, just the names are the same), as what matters is the value of the item (which includes taxes and transport costs etc.). One of the disputes with the EU is the UKs intention is to create Free Ports. That is an area where the goods etc., technically have never entered the UK (unless formally cleared as entering at some time). The EU contends this breaks the trade agreement with the EU. As items could be sent onto the EU, without incurring UK taxes (which they believe is an unfair trade advantage). Others argue it is no different in principle than a ship docking anywhere, partially unloading, then continuing to further destinations, without being taxed on those items at the ports of call., that remain on the ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Cottrell 2 Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Hi Erfolg Now you have me completely confused. I have a shipment coming from Hong Kong via Fedex. In it's travels it arrived at the Fedex Hub at Roissy Charles de Gaulle, in France. Since this is a hub I can only assume the item did not leave the warehouse, or go through French Customs before being loaded for onward shipment to UK. I fully expect to have to pay UK vat, and probably a handling charge, when it arrives in UK, but from what you say, seems I might have to pay some form of EU tax as well. Have I read this right? Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Gave up on HK several years ago. I now look at AliExpress for wooden props and DLE engine spares if none are available in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Jeffrey Your order from HK/China is merely a parcel in transit. However many countries it may visit, makes no difference to duties/taxes due. However if it were part of a shipment, that was sub divided on route as part of intended operation, such as a container containing multiple items, to be dispatched to a number of destinations/individuals, the EU sees that as adding value. On that basis orders from the Hobby King EU warehouse, would normally be subjected to EU Vat. This is the issue the EU has with free ports, no additional taxes are due, as it is seen as the goods never entered the UK, in most cases. The UK being a convenient extension of the point of initial shipment where some additional operations may have taken place. Not strictly relevant. Most unfortunately I have traveled from Denmark via Sweden to Norway and then returned (SAS strike and administration operational issues, so we were told). Much to my surprise, we passed through the EU border (Sweden/Norway) in both directions. There are custom posts, they appeared unmanned, trucks just rumbled through. I then wondered what is different about the UK (Northern Ireland) and Eire, where the EU sees things apparently so differently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Just to eliminate this thread from the constant emails about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Erflog, I don't think that is true, I have ordered from EU companies and the goods have arrived with no EU tax applied. It appears that it is only HK that can't get itself sorted for paying UK tax and has decided that shipping from the EU warehouse to outside the EU (i.e. with no EU VAT) is not worth the effort. As an EU business then HK EU will pay VAT on goods they import and then charge VAT on goods they sell in the EU, but in their accounts they can reclaim the VAT they paid on the goods when they arrive at their warehouse. So lets say they receive one item worth 100 euro, they would pay VAT based on this value, if they then sell that within EU the for 200 euro they would charge VAT based on that value. But as an EU registered business they can reclaim the VAT they have paid when they imported it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Frank, from what has been written in a newspaper, anything that adds value is subjected to VAT in the EU. I understand that exporting anything from the EU, has the VAT removed, if, and it is a big if, the exporter supplies documentation to reclaim the vat. On that basis a lot depends on how much effort HK make in claiming back the Vat, even though a paper exercise is worth (as the process has a cost to HK). It is much easier, I am guessing to re-export without reclaiming the VAT> The same is true in the UK, except that I understand that visitors to the UK can no longer claim a vat return from purchases made as tourists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) Frank, I have been re-reading some of the articles that I have been recently reading with respect to "Free Ports". You do appear to be spot on with respect to VAT being reclaimed with respect to EU exports. Although aimed at larger businesses. It seems that that the EU problem with UK Free Ports is with respect to re-exports. Precisely what the issues are other than they are seen as circumventing EU taxes (incl. VAT). It seems that Hamburg FP was closed a few years back. The status had been part of the port becoming one of the largest and profitable European ports. I am left with the impression that for small traders reclaiming VAT (from their returns) is demanding, to the extent that it often does not occur. I would have thought that if the sale is posted as a loss, or break even then no VAT would be due (as no added value has occurred). From my understanding, the situation remains the same. Paying EU Vat, does not absolve the purchaser in paying UK VAT. Which would include all the costs of purchasing from overseas, what ever the rights and wrongs. It is the total cost (what was payed) that matters Edited July 20, 2022 by Erfolg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 16 minutes ago, Erfolg said: I am left with the impression that for small traders reclaiming VAT (from their returns) is demanding, to the extent that it often does not occur. I would have thought that if the sale is posted as a loss, or break even then no VAT would be due (as no added value has occurred). There is a minimum turnover that has to be exceeded to qualify for VAT registration, used to be £75,000, which means the business can buy VAT free but pay VAT on the sale. Small businesses just pay VAT on all their purchases and cannot reclaim the VAT even if the goods are exported. It makes no difference in either case as VAT is paid on the sale price and profit does not come into play. I am not sure of this so would it not be best to consult an expert? Are we way off topic now, as this has nothing to do with HK Customer Service? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 From the mods point of view the threads fine, VAT changes are part of the customers experience now, so discussing it as you are seems reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Cottrell 2 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Hi Guys Now I'm confused. Fedex delivered my parcel this morning, actually a day earlier than scheduled, full marks to them. Main thing is, no Vat or handling charge was asked for, or paid. Total cost was only what I paid to HK. So, question. Despite everything that's been said, HK have actually paid the UK vat. (unlikely) or Was my shipment one that slipped through the net, and I was just lucky. (more likely) So, the packs I bought (Turnigy 2650 4s) were on sale anyway, so in total cost me £23.95/unit. However, I did find out the handling charge Fedex would have made, and the vat is easy to work out, so even if I had paid full price, and vat and handling on top, this would have added up to £40.18/unit, which is comparable to UK bought items. For those who use and like Turnigy Lipo's things not as bad as they may seem. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Don't hold you breath, i got one from them a while ago and a week later a bill from them with the tax and handling charge,,, good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 I expect luck is the issue. Below a certain value VAT is not collected and even when it is above the VAT threshold it may still escape. In our hobby where 95%? of out products are foreign manufactured I fear Brexit has done us few favours but you never know we may yet get a trade deal with China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Simon I thought that VAT now was applied to all personal imports. The £14 allowance being withdrawn when leaving the EU. As one who exceeded the £14 allowance by approx 50p and was charged VAT on the item and its postal cost, together with a Handling charge, I must be unlucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinFlynn Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 As Paul alludes to, FEDEX are commercial carriers and usually send an invoice after the delivery as their 'meat and potatoes' customers are businesses that never refuse to pay.... I'd expect a bill in the post if I were you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) 18 hours ago, Jeffrey Cottrell 2 said: Hi Guys Now I'm confused. Fedex delivered my parcel this morning, actually a day earlier than scheduled, full marks to them. Main thing is, no Vat or handling charge was asked for, or paid. Total cost was only what I paid to HK. So, question. Despite everything that's been said, HK have actually paid the UK vat. (unlikely) or Was my shipment one that slipped through the net, and I was just lucky. (more likely) Check your HK invoice - if there is nothing for VAT (which I am certain there won't be) they didn't collect it and pass it on. As others have said, I would bet that you have either been lucky and it slipped through, or Fedex will bill the VAT afterwards (as @Paul De Tourtoulon says this does happen; carriers don't want their people on the doorstep battling with customers for payment when they could be making deliveries). Edited July 21, 2022 by MattyB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lee Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 Following on from this thread I thought I would try AliExpress for the first time - thanks to those who suggested it. I ordered 4 LiPos from the China Hobbyline (CNHL) store within AliExpress (CNHL's UK warehouse had no suitable LiPos). VAT was added at the checkout & I saw that my PayPal payment went to Alipay (UK) Ltd. I looked up this Company on the Government's Company's House website which confirmed that it is registered in London. A glance through their 2021 accounts (freely available at the previous link) shows that it has a number of overseas subsidiary companies, a turnover of £295million and pays both UK & Overseas taxes. I placed my order on 21 July and exactly 2 weeks later the LiPo's were delivered today via Evri (formerly Hermes) courier. It had a UK shipping label so presumably the goods are shipped in bulk to the UK before being relabelled for the final dispatch. So all above board, I am very happy with the whole process & will certainly be using them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 1 minute ago, John Lee said: So all above board, I am very happy with the whole process & will certainly be using them again. You can use them again and again, just charge them each time,,😉 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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