The Big Question ?

[Piers Bowlan]

11 hours ago, Geoff Gardiner said:

Personally, I like the challenge of building so would welcome something more complex.

 

Admittedly, I do have a few builds under my belt but with each build I always try something new in order to advance my skill set. Currently I am building the Mustang and will be trying out the ‘Brown Paper’ method of covering for the first time and also, I will be adding a bit more weathering than I have done in the past.

 

I have not tried planking before so would welcome that in a kit.

 

I would love a Mossie but would be equally tempted with a Razorback Jug.

 

I fly electric and ‘full fat’ models always appeal.

Size wise, I would be happy going large - anything up to 80inch span.

 

The problem with ‘going large (80in wingspan)’ is the cost of a kit goes up exponentially with size. Less demand for  bigger kits for that reason.

I think Richard has hit the sweet spot regarding size.

I built a Blackburn Firebrand from B & Q polystyrene reinforced with carbon strips and covered in brown paper. Super cheap and if building bigger models is your thing and quite quick too. My  Firebrand was only 52in span but my next build using this technique will be bigger! 

[RICHARD WILLS]

So the P47 and maybe Sea Fury are both contenders . I would like to go to around 60" but light weight as I tend to use 4s packs and many others do the same . But at that size a 52FS could also be employed or Laser 70 .

The way I choose subjects may be slightly different . 

I would look for colour scheme as one of my key "pleasers" . 

When you consider the Fw190 that we have just been completing , it is semi scale , and quite crude , but when the various paint jobs are applied it takes on a real appeal . 

In contrast , look at a captured 190 , repainted in brown and green RAF camo . It looks dreadful and lacks most of its predatory appeal . 

Spitfires have such a beautiful shape that they can pull off any paint job , but that isnt true of most . 

A plain dark green Messerscmitt 110 is a dull chap , but the mottled grey variant with a Hornet emblem on the nose is fabulous .  

The next "Litmus test " is to think , "if I were at my field on my own on a sunny still summer morning , what would I want to see do a private air display for me ?"

In that case I am looking for something more unusual , because Ive done thousands of hours flying 55" warbirds . I appreciate that is not the case for the newer guys . 

That is when I dream of a Lightning , a B17 , Whirlwind , Mossie etc . 

I have a 60" He111 as you know , and that is very satisfying to fly when on my own . Easy , but realistic and majestic .  A Whirlwind would be way up my list simply for its unusual looks and the fact that it should have been way more famous than it was . There is even a white nosed version. 

However, I appreciate there are three things going on here . 

1) Subjects I like will not be universally chosen and consequently a loss leader . 

2) The experienced builders will want a sophisticated full fat model . 

3) The newer guys will want my simpler designs in order to gain confidence . 

 

Point three is the easiest to fix .  A derivative of the existing Tempest will provide a good Sea Fury without much of my time. I could also do a run of some of my early models like the Yak , La7 or even the early Spitfire along the foam wings and central crutch method of the 190 and Tempest . 

For number 1 , then the best thing is just to do my own thing .

For number 2 , well there's the difficult bit . 

 

There is an enormous amount of work involved in producing a proper kit , so It is important that I make something for a market that exists . 

 

[leccyflyer]

55-60" is what I'd consider a very practical size for a single engined electric warbird, which, at a push, ought to be able to be transported fully rigged - wings on - in my estate car. Once you get above that size and up to the 80" span range, those would tend to become high day and holiday type models, which will invariably need rigging at the field. I rather dislike having to put models together at the field and especially having to take them apart again to stow them and bring them home. I can live with that, as a special occasion model, but for everyday flying give me three 48" span models that can fit, wings on, all together and be ready to go. That's just practicality in operation on an everyday basis to help make sure that those models get a regular outing.

 

FWIW I think you have impeccable taste in aeroplanes Richard and you have the experience in the market to have a good handle on what can be sufficiently commercial to work out. That is reflected in the recognition that the Lightning, B-17 and Whirlwind, whilst desirable, probably would not sell in large enough numbers. I'd diverge on the subject of the Mosquito there, as such an iconic aeroplane would make commercial sense, especially if it were true enough to scale, rather than some of the slightly weird looking ARTF Mossies that have emerged.

 

If the choice was between a P-47 and Sea Fury I'd have to plump for the P-47 Razorback, though I already have good quality foamies of both, the variety of colour schemes for a kit built P-47 is huge, whist for the Sea Fury, as a warbird are rather limited, albeit very striking, I wouldn't countenance any of the post war racing schemes, as I don't consider those to be warbirds at all.

[Murat Kece 1]

I would go something not so common.. I would be happy P47, YAK, LA7 etc. Complexity is not a big issue for me. Zero will be great too..

[Lipo Man]

2 hours ago, RICHARD WILLS said:

So the P47 and maybe Sea Fury are both contenders . I would like to go to around 60" but light weight as I tend to use 4s packs and many others do the same . But at that size a 52FS could also be employed or Laser 70 .

 

 

One thought on cheap batteries. I built a large ugly stick out of foamboard - about 1.7m span with a 5065 sized brushless motor. Flew brilliantly until I took off with ailerons reversed…

Anyway - avoided the battery problem by using two 3s batteries in series to give me 6s. Worked brilliantly until I destroyed it, so I’m about to build something sketchy to re-use the motor. And once that is destroyed I could always put the motor in whatever comes out of this discussion…

This is the stick before (and after…) its’ untimely demise. 
 

[Graham R]

P47 61 inch for me. That would make it 1/8th scale. Razorback please

[Eric Robson]

13 hours ago, Graham R said:

P47 61 inch for me. That would make it 1/8th scale. Razorback please

Stretching it a bit for Richard's preferred 4s  Graham, it would have to be very light, although my Warbirds Hurricane is 60" span and has the same set up as the FW190 the extra weight dulls the performance and duration.

[Paul Johnson 4]

I have a 61" Hellcat at 8lbs with a  4s 4000mAh pack, it has a 5050 580KV driving a 16x8x3 prop and using a conservative throttle gives a 5 mins Duxford style flight.

[leccyflyer]

Would prefer a Hellcat to a P-47 TBH, since there really aren't that many Hellcats around already, but loads of options for P-47s.

[Paul Johnson 4]

The biggest problem with the Hellcat is twistnturn retracts, the cost and fragility of them.

[GrumpyGnome]

Totally agree re twist n turn retracts.  And above 4S, I'd be scared to belly-land (I know other happily belly land larger stuff).  I'd not want anything that needed more than 4S tbh.

 

Although it's been done to death and is all curves, I'd probably vote for a Corsair just because they look so wicked flying towards you.....

 

[leccyflyer]

Agreed - twist and turn retracts are even more of a pain than plain ordinary retracts.

[Paul Johnson 4]

I am using the FMS 1700mm Corsair retracts in the hellcat and at £80 a pair is not fun when, not if, they fail.

The diecast trunnion is the issue as it fractures the fork arms if you find a bump or hole. I am currently working on something that might.... might solve the issue. I have modelled in cad the trunnion and have spoken to a few material suppliers regarding different  materials to 3D print a replacement. This is the original part.

 

 

This is the modified part once I have had a chance to test the latest material suggested to me, I can let you know if your interested.

Edited April 1 by Paul Johnson 4

[leccyflyer]

Definitely interested. After breaking two sets of the small EFlite twist and turn retracts, which use a very fragile extra ball link for the twist function, I modified an FMS set, which uses a short metal stub to actuate the twist, so anything which would make this style of retract more robust would be worth a luck. My larger Corsair uses the FMS 1450mm retracts and one of those is playing up as well.

[Paul Johnson 4]

Some Skins for P47 possibilities....

 

[Ron Gray]

3 hours ago, leccyflyer said:

Agreed - twist and turn retracts are even more of a pain than plain ordinary retracts.

My eFlite retracts on my H9 Hellcat were a right pain so I modified them to have the external ball links, they are now far better.

[Gordon McConnell]

My vote, if I am allowed one, 😀 would be for a Sea Fury. P47 would be second. Bearcat would be nice but listening to the comments on the twist and turn retracts, maybe not. Getting back to working on the FW190 this week. 
 

[Ron Gray]

8 minutes ago, Gordon McConnell said:

twist and turn retracts, maybe not

Dolly launch, belly land. Does away with the twisty turny things altogether.

[RICHARD WILLS]

20 minutes ago, Gordon McConnell said:

My vote, if I am allowed one, 😀 would be for a Sea Fury. P47 would be second. Bearcat would be nice but listening to the comments on the twist and turn retracts, maybe not. Getting back to working on the FW190 this week. 
 

You're allowed to have a vote Gordon just like everyone else (except for Paul 😬). Both types seem popular .

I suppose the simplest fix might be for me to re jig the Tempest to become a Sea Fury option , then make an all built up P47 with two canopies and rear deck choices .

Sounds easy when you say it quickly . 

We are of course discounting the twin option . 

As I've said before , a 64" twin will also compete with both of the above in terms of popularity and practicality .

Especially if it was a Mosquito . 

Just saying ....

 

 

[Eric Robson]

10 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said:

Totally agree re twist n turn retracts.  And above 4S, I'd be scared to belly-land (I know other happily belly land larger stuff).  I'd not want anything that needed more than 4S tbh.

 

Although it's been done to death and is all curves, I'd probably vote for a Corsair just because they look so wicked flying towards you.....

 

I belly land my Brian Taylor Corsair after a dolly take off, it is 61" span it has a 5s 5000 battery and by eliminating the retracts and careful balsa selection it is at least a pound lighter than the target weight on the plan. With only the wing bends to land on I sometimes think it needs an arrester hook. 

[RICHARD WILLS]

I wouldnt do a Corsair . 

Dont  get me wrong , Ive had a few . I like the subject , but there are too many available on the market already and as we have all agreed the twist and turns are not available in reliable and affordable format . 

Lets not forget the focus of this thread . To start on a whole new design to please a reasonable proportion of the warbird builders and flyers on this forum , I need to know the subject is going to be a success (my reputation on the line) and that as many people as possible can enjoy building and operating it . 

Its a good system . The Chinese are not going to be writing to us and asking what we'd like next, so if the subject has too many negatives lets rule it out . 

On the subject of focus and appeal , how does the 64" span , 1 battery , Mosquito compare with a favourite single engined warbird ?

The one I have a prototype of , keeps all of its electrics and connections on the wing and forward fuselage , so the rear of the fuselage detaches with one bolt and two servo leads . I know lecky has deplored rigging at the field , but this method is very minimal and allows small saloons the opportunity to slide a long wing in lengthwise . 

Expanding the choice to twins gives us fresh options with very few negatives . The main one being that at less than 72" it pretty much rules out IC . 

However , the advantages are clear . Larger wheels mean better rough field capability and because most of the hardware like retracts and speed controllers can be housed in the nacelles without complicating the wing , then foam veneer wings can be employed with minimal foam bashing , making them quick build kits relative to their apparent complexity . Any twin would could be a similar set up . 

I really dont mind what you all choose as long as there is enough of you on the same page . Otherwise its a non starter . 

[Ron Gray]

FWIW, my input. Single engine jobbie, P47 (Sea Fury I want but will mod a Tempest kit). Twins just got to be the Mossie. And I would add that I’m more than happy with dolly launch / belly land rather than retracts.

[David Holland 2]

Ron has just stated my view exactly.

 

David

[Ace]

1st choice - a Mossie, dolly launch, belly land, single 4s battery or 2 x 3s 2.2 and ok without flaps, KISS.

2nd choice - P47 Razorback.

3rd choice - Zero or KI84

 

[RICHARD WILLS]

Thanks chaps

This the kind of bullet style reply we need from as many of our lads as possible . 

Gives the clearest picture .