The Big Question ?

[RICHARD WILLS]

17 minutes ago, Ace said:

Razorback 👍

Why the question? has a decision been made on the next project? Still fancy a Mosquito although I accept it would be more complicated and expensive so possibly less appealing but come on who doesn't love it and aspire to owning/flying one 🙏 

Although I'm fully engaged in the Fw190 & Tempest "entry level " Warbirds , I'm aware that in the Autumn , the thoughts of a winter project for the 70 or so builders and flyers will turn to "what next " . 

To meet this need , I have to be well ahead . Hence I have been chucking a few ideas out to see what the reaction is . 

The research so far has been like herding cats . We all have different tastes so there isn't going to to be a fix for everyone . The work involved in a "full fat " version with retracts , flaps and an I/C option is colossal , so I cant afford to jus do what I like and sell 12 kits . 

There are some candidates that will have excellent flying characteristics and would be rewarding to build and fly . 

Here are a few that I know would have few issues . P47 , Sea Fury , Zero , Macchi 202 . All wide stance , short legs .  Anything with Twist and turn retracts  , forget . 

That is just the single engined subjects . But lets stick with this area for a minute . 

Many of you enjoyed the 190 because it was quick and simple . To get the rounded fuselages of the more exotic will require more build time and some new skills (for some) .

You know that as a designer , I will usually come up with some short cuts (as I'm perhaps more impatient than most ) . But even so , I would like to ask you all something . 

A few years ago I collaborated with a good friend of mine , Brian Seymour on a prototype kit version of his scratch built Macchi 202 . 

The thread can be found on this forum by searching for "Warbirds Replicas Macchi 202 has landed " 

Because of the beautiful cigar shaped fuselage and racing heritage , it was not going to be a simple box build . So there are lots of bits , but they all fit together in a very satisfying manor . There were a few people watching the thread and it certainly looked fabulous as it came together . 

Sadly we had only about three enquiries . The question is . Was it the subject or the complexity / skinning ?

Brian has competed very successfully in the Nationals and been photographed in the BMFA magazine many times . The model is 61" span and having seen it fly and can say it is one of the very best flyers Ive ever seen . It even handles blustery conditions better than larger models to the extent that in his last competition he scored 9.5 and 10 for his landings !

To clarify. What level of build do you feel comfortable with ? Some of our newer following will also need to answer this as well as the old hands . 

Take a look at the 202 build and say what you like and don't like , because all of the four subjects above will be similar . 

Here is another "research red herring " . We could get the impression that the group is generally wildly patriotic , with some decrying anything which may have anything other than that with a British roundel on it . 

However , 35 Fw190s went and  45 P51s, and yet we have not had more than one or two enquires for my Spitfire or Hurricane kit in the last year !!

 

 

[EarlyBird]

 

[Lipo Man]

I have no plans to build another balsa warbird now the FW190 is done. However…

 

I loved building it and even more it’s a joy to fly. I will definitely buy the retracts kit for it as I’ve always wanted to have a plane with retracts. And now having read a few build threads on here I’m certainly open to one “final” model - and if I were to do so it would be something bigger. With flaps. 
 

Looking at the Macchi build (beautiful model, b.t.w.) the main area of scariness is the complexity of the framing structure and the difficulty of doing a decent job on that planking. If the structure were a little simpler and there was a bit more large sheet skinning rather than narrow planking that would be a plus for me - reduces the size of the mountain to climb. 
 

With regards to which plane, obviously that will be herding cats as you’ve said. My own feline direction is towards the Sea Fury - my absolute favourite warbird.  I’ve built one of my own design in foamboard that has been crashed heavily multiple times and still flies. Of course it’s very basic in scale detail - I’ve attached a picture attached alongside my first warbird - a Flitetest Spitfire. I’m one of what I suspect are many who finally succeeded getting into RC planes thanks to the Flitetest YouTube channel. 
 

Finally cost - the relative affordability of the FW190 was a big plus for me, and of course these would cost much more. As a major winter project I’m sure I’d cope with that, but keeping it down (no written instructions etc.) is fine with me. I already have a motor and ESC so that takes a chunk off it!

 

Following with interest!
 

 

 

[martin collins 1]

You know me Richard, from your small list above it would always be the Zero, i love the blotch camo schemes and the weathering on them in that theatre was heavy to give the artists among us something to show their skills on! A simple conversion with floats and you can transform the Zero to a Rufe, i could see one of those making a real talking point taking off from one of Ron's launching dollies 😊. 

Edited March 29 by martin collins 1

[gillyg1]

Richard, i'll go with the macchi 202, with retracts maybe flaps, slightly larger will do for me, as i'll be doing an i/c version, not for you to worry about. 

Will look up Brians build thread 😉

Btw: can you sort out the bloody weather : wind and rain . Much appreciated Graham ( Cornwall)

😉👍

[Ron Gray]

13 minutes ago, gillyg1 said:

bloody weather : wind and rain

 

13 minutes ago, gillyg1 said:

Cornwall

Says it all really

[Ron Gray]

I’m up for building anything, simple complex etc but if part of the aim is to take new builders through the stages from simple to complex builds then I think it needs to be a bit simpler that the Macchi. We’ve started with the simple FW190 then progressing with a slightly more ‘complex’ Tempest so another one slightly easier than the Macchiato.

[Paul Johnson 4]

Ron, you may have a long one but.... our 'shed' is better than yours... even has a WW2 bunker incorporated too  

[RICHARD WILLS]

39 minutes ago, Lipo Man said:

I have no plans to build another balsa warbird now the FW190 is done. However…

 

I loved building it and even more it’s a joy to fly. I will definitely buy the retracts kit for it as I’ve always wanted to have a plane with retracts. And now having read a few build threads on here I’m certainly open to one “final” model - and if I were to do so it would be something bigger. With flaps. 
 

Looking at the Macchi build (beautiful model, b.t.w.) the main area of scariness is the complexity of the framing structure and the difficulty of doing a decent job on that planking. If the structure were a little simpler and there was a bit more large sheet skinning rather than narrow planking that would be a plus for me - reduces the size of the mountain to climb. 
 

With regards to which plane, obviously that will be herding cats as you’ve said. My own feline direction is towards the Sea Fury - my absolute favourite warbird.  I’ve built one of my own design in foamboard that has been crashed heavily multiple times and still flies. Of course it’s very basic in scale detail - I’ve attached a picture attached alongside my first warbird - a Flitetest Spitfire. I’m one of what I suspect are many who finally succeeded getting into RC planes thanks to the Flitetest YouTube channel. 
 

Finally cost - the relative affordability of the FW190 was a big plus for me, and of course these would cost much more. As a major winter project I’m sure I’d cope with that, but keeping it down (no written instructions etc.) is fine with me. I already have a motor and ESC so that takes a chunk off it!

 

Following with interest!
 

 

 

I agree with your comments entirely . It think all that planking will put most off . Are we saying the subject is good , but construction complexity of something like that with a rounded fuselage is too much of an epic ? That would be my feeling too . 

Two things : We have learnt to bend balsa sheet on the 190 so perhaps a simplified skin that required panels rathe than planking would be better , plus some vac formed plastic for the long cowl and wing fairings . 

I'm not saying we are making some Macchi 202's , just a start and test point . 

Secondly , a small Sea Fury could be derived from the Tempest with only a few mods from me , so perhaps a simple model based on existing plus a more complicated, slightly  larger model for those more experienced . 

With some slight "cheats " we can produce rounded fuselages in a much simpler way . If we don't , then we will have every limited options . 

[David Holland 2]

I would love a P47 but it would have to be a bubble canopy for me. I have thrown my hat into the ring for a Tempest and I would also go for a Sea Fury, all Allied subjects, I know. A "low fat" version without u/c, flaps, etc, would keep the weight and build time down.

[Paul Johnson 4]

2 hours ago, RICHARD WILLS said:

 and yet we have not had more than one or two enquires for my Spitfire or Hurricane kit in the last year !!

 

 

 With the large amount of patriotic modelers on the forums I'm amazed at the non existent sales for the Spitfire...

This model is not so removed from the the complexity of the FW190 and Tempest

 

[Lipo Man]

23 minutes ago, RICHARD WILLS said:

I agree with your comments entirely . It think all that planking will put most off . Are we saying the subject is good , but construction complexity of something like that with a rounded fuselage is too much of an epic ? That would be my feeling too . 

Two things : We have learnt to bend balsa sheet on the 190 so perhaps a simplified skin that required panels rathe than planking would be better , plus some vac formed plastic for the long cowl and wing fairings . 

I'm not saying we are making some Macchi 202's , just a start and test point . 

Secondly , a small Sea Fury could be derived from the Tempest with only a few mods from me , so perhaps a simple model based on existing plus a more complicated, slightly  larger model for those more experienced . 

With some slight "cheats " we can produce rounded fuselages in a much simpler way . If we don't , then we will have every limited options . 

Exactly my preference - simplify the skinning versus the Macchi, and ideally a few less formers and stringers. I’d imagine that’s largely driven by the complexity of the subject - you avoided compound curves on the FW190 and yet it really looks the part. Some moulded bits and a fairly simple shape would reduce the size of the skills and workload jump from your gateway drug FW190…

 

And I’m open to something other than Sea Fury, but that’s my favourite. Suspect I’ll be tempted regardless…

[leccyflyer]

12 minutes ago, Paul Johnson 4 said:

 With the large amount of patriotic modelers on the forums I'm amazed at the non existent sales for the Spitfire...

This model is not so removed from the the complexity of the FW190 and Tempest

 

FWIW I would jump at the chance of a WR Spitfire Mk1a, above anything else. I already have a Spitfire IX kit, Hurricane, P-51D but you cannot have too many Spitfires, A 55" span Bf109E is a hole in my fleet as well.

[Lipo Man]

And just to throw another un-herded cat among the pigeons, thinking about warbirds with relatively simple shapes - Bearcat? A bit less modelled, but maybe not enough schemes as I can only remember seeing them in that dark blue?

 

[leccyflyer]

There are a few Bearcat schemes are out there beyond the classic Midnight Blue, even including, heaven forbid, non-warbird Reno Racer style liveries  😞 , but the Bearcat's tubby ovoid fuselage barely has a straight line or plane on it, suggesting either planking or veneered foam turtle decks, fuselage sides and bottom - similar to the Thunderbolt.

[leccyflyer]

1 hour ago, Paul Johnson 4 said:

Ron, you may have a long one but.... our 'shed' is better than yours... even has a WW2 bunker incorporated too  

"Morning Arnold...."

[Ron Gray]

2 hours ago, Paul Johnson 4 said:

Ron, you may have a long one but.... our 'shed' is better than yours... even has a WW2 bunker incorporated too  

And even an authentic crater by the looks of it!

[Ron Gray]

I'll see your bunker and raise you a T2 hanger

 

[Don Fry]

Can’t the design, bubble or razorback be the same kit. When Topflite did them, the razor back to bubble conversion was only a minor modification kit

[Paul Johnson 4]

30 minutes ago, Ron Gray said:

And even an authentic crater by the looks of it!

Na.... I farted..

[RICHARD WILLS]

38 minutes ago, Don Fry said:

Can’t the design, bubble or razorback be the same kit. When Topflite did them, the razor back to bubble conversion was only a minor modification kit

Yes Don . We did that on the P51 , also offering three different canopies .

 

[andrew exton]

Not that I need another Thunderbolt but 👍can’t have to many jugs or P51,s . For some reason the Macchi doesn’t really do owt for me not that would stop me buying one if it looked right ( well better than the VQ o version ) 

I do have regrets on missing the yak 9 you did , one on the lines of the fw190 would do me fine but that’s a story for another day 

 

andy

[Chris Walby]

My 2 pence worth and TBH UC despite the cost, weight and extra building gets my vote (but not tricycle) so  Zero or Macchi 202 are preferred. TBH I'll go with the herd as non of them are twins and the likelihood of getting enough people to make it viable is low so I don't think that will happen anyway.

 

I need the building practice whatever it is...before I start on the WR back catalogue!

[RICHARD WILLS]

1 hour ago, Chris Walby said:

My 2 pence worth and TBH UC despite the cost, weight and extra building gets my vote (but not tricycle) so  Zero or Macchi 202 are preferred. TBH I'll go with the herd as non of them are twins and the likelihood of getting enough people to make it viable is low so I don't think that will happen anyway.

 

I need the building practice whatever it is...before I start on the WR back catalogue!

Chris. when we've had a few more single engined opinions , I will open the multi engined can of worms 

[Geoff Gardiner]

Personally, I like the challenge of building so would welcome something more complex.

Admittedly, I do have a few builds under my belt but with each build I always try something new in order to advance my skill set. Currently I am building the Mustang and will be trying out the ‘Brown Paper’ method of covering for the first time and also, I will be adding a bit more weathering than I have done in the past.

I have not tried planking before so would welcome that in a kit.

I would love a Mossie but would be equally tempted with a Razorback Jug.

I fly electric and ‘full fat’ models always appeal.

Size wise, I would be happy going large - anything up to 80inch span.