Gyros in fixed wing?

[FiddleSticks]

Hey all,

 

My son has a little polystyrene 3 channel trainer type thing. It has a gyro built into it and having tried flying without the gyro, i can honesty say the gyro is superb!

 

I'm wondering how common it is to use gyros in larger fixed wing though? - My first trainer didn't have one, it was all done by making corrections when the wind blew it off course etc. Of course if it was a major gust you were looking at a fight at times. At the sourthern show in september there were some large scale jets being flown about and one of the commentators mentioned it having a gyro.

 

I'm just wondering is this is the new norm / acceptable these days? Does it count against you when doing the BMFA tests?

 

Thanks,

 

FS

[Ron Gray]

A lot of models now use gyros, especially (as you heard) turbines, and why not? I know that there is a lot of debate around their use but imo once someone has learnt to fly for example to A cert standard, then a correctly setup gyro is a very useful tool.

[Geoff S]

I fitted a gyro to the rudder of my Great Planes Super Stearman to help stop squirming on the take-off run which worked (but replacing the worn wheels helped just as much!) but, other than that the only fixed wing models I have with gyros are the tiny 400mm ws ones which are all but impossible to fly without.

 

As for using gyro assistance for BMFA tests, I'm fairly sure they aren't allowed for the 'A' and probably not for the others.

[Dickw]

27 minutes ago, FiddleSticks said:

Hey all,

 

My son has a little polystyrene 3 channel trainer type thing. It has a gyro built into it and having tried flying without the gyro, i can honesty say the gyro is superb!

 

I'm wondering how common it is to use gyros in larger fixed wing though? - My first trainer didn't have one, it was all done by making corrections when the wind blew it off course etc. Of course if it was a major gust you were looking at a fight at times. At the sourthern show in september there were some large scale jets being flown about and one of the commentators mentioned it having a gyro.

 

I'm just wondering is this is the new norm / acceptable these days? Does it count against you when doing the BMFA tests?

 

Thanks,

 

FS

From the BMFA fixed wing test guidance (the bold is mine):-

 

For ‘A’ and ‘B’ tests the minimum weight of a model used is 1 kg (2.2 lbs.) without fuel
but with batteries, and the use of gyros, autopilot or other electronic stability/pilot aids
is not permitted during the tests. If any such system is fitted to the model it must be
disabled during the tests and you should check that this has been done. The model must
also be capable of taking off from the ground. If these requirements are not met for the
‘A’ test, the examiner may only award the BPC on successful completion of the test.

 

Gyros can be useful when learning in the initial stages, and also in windy weather later on, but for the A and B test they are not permitted as you have to be able to control the model yourself.

Nothing wrong with aiming for a BPC though.

 

Dick

[Cuban8]

Gyros are great - we have all sorts of planes being flown in our club that use them extensively from crazy little foamies to one chap's vectored thrust turbine powered model that does the most extraordinary manouvres.

However, for normal sport type models that most of us fly, they are far from essential - I've never flown any of my fixed wing models with one in forty or so years, but I do understand their benefits in certain situations, and I do have a gyro system in my store cupboard that I haven't got around to experimenting with yet. They are to be found on all model helicopters these days and my helis all have heading hold gyros that are brilliant- but that wasn't always the case in the long and distant past.......Google 'The Morley String Method'............

 

Flight stabilisation or gyro assistance is not permitted on a normal 'A' certificate fixed wing test.

[leccyflyer]

A lot of the EFlite foamie warbirds are equipped with gyro stabilisation, often in dual form - A3SX acts to smooth out the flying characteristics and is useful in handling wind gusts are turbulence, whilst SAFE is a more aggressive gyro stabilisation mode, which limits bank and pitch ange. Personally I find the first is a nice to have, but really don;t like SAFE and have that disabled on models which are equipped with that.

 

OTOH for the wee foamies that you describe which you son has, the so-called 6 axis stabilisation is superb and I've made dozens of flights with that enabled on the wee Volantex/Eachine/Sonik RC 400mm warbirds -it makes for a very fulfilling flying experience in winds up to 15mph+ Simply marvellous.

 

Some of my clubmates use the Spektrum SAFE technology and comparable third party gyros on larger models - especially EDF jets, to take the stress out of hand launching. The model goes away as good as gold, drama free, then the gyro is switched off on the climb out and the flight proceeds normally.

[Brian Cooper]

If you like them, then use them.

 

Personally, I have tried several - mostly in other people's models - and I can't stand the things.  They slow down control inputs and generally interfere.  It is like having a committee of nannies onboard, all saying, "Nanny knows best." 

Well, Nanny does NOT ruddy well know best. 🙄 

 

None of my models has one. 

[John Lee]

I have fleet of about 40 models and about a third of them have gyros.

 

Only one of these models actually needs a gyro - a large twin engined model which Dutch rolls annoyingly without some gyro damping.

 

For the rest as Leccy says they are great for hand launching EDF jets whilst the others are personal preference. They do need setting up carefully to get the best out of them though and to avoid them interfering when not wanted.

[Cuban8]

I was thinking of putting a simple rate gyro on the rudder of one of my models that can get a bit out of shape on the take off run. Probably more to do with my slowing rudder inputs with advancing age than the 'plane itself.

Not sure if a gyro would help or not. Comments welcome.

[RedBaron]

They are just great - allowing one to fly all models better in a wider range of wind conditions.

On - for strong winds and gustiness

Off - for kinder conditions 

[Manish Chandrayan]

My first experience was with a Powerbox single and it felt totally un natural with the gyro on, one has to recalibrate the brain and finger responses when flying with gyros initially. The gyros do help in windy conditions but on the flip side as Brian mentioned they add delay to the control response from Tx

[GrumpyGnome]

Confused. In my experience....

 

Gyros that correct movement NOT selected by pilot, e.g. AS3X is great on the umx type stuff. I've turned it off on anything larger (EFlite Viking and Stearman). I personally didn't find it slowed pilot induced responses, just semed unnecessary.

 

Auto stabolization, e.g. SAFE, I find very intrusive as it limits what the pilot can do. Yeuk, not for me; although I can see the initial benefit in building confidence.

[Lipo Man]

I’ve got a self designed aerobatics hack that I fitted with a gyro stabilised receiver. It’s great for two things. First when I’m practicing something that is a long way ahead of my current skill level (!) and lose orientation, I have self levelling on a momentary switch. One click rights the plane, and then I can carry on normally from there. Second, I use the “AS3X” type function in windy weather - flying is more fun for me when I can still focus on my manouvers rather than just constantly fighting the wind. I fly most of the time with it turned off, but my flying skills have improved faster with it (not least because every time I use the self righting function after losing orientation I stay flying instead of collecting the debris and spending days/weeks on a repair or rebuild). 

[Cuban8]

Ver interesting remarks Lipo Man, I like your pragmatic approach. I doubt if I'd ever go down the flight controller/AS3X/ panic button route, as powerful as they are, but who knows as time goes on and reactions begin to slow?

At the moment, I'm looking at whether technology (even in its simplest form of a single gyro on a rudder) can be of assistance and as a method of reducing workload at a critical part of the flight i.e. the take of with a trickyish model on the ground - 120 size Spitfire ). Once up and away and cleaned up all's fine - even my  landings aren't too bad......usually.

[Jon H]

I am firmly in the no gyro camp myself. Just learn to fly the model and accept that all models are different and each has its own requirements. Its what keeps me interestd after 30+ years. if it was super easy and the models flew themselves it would get pretty boring

[Tim Kearsley]

I recently experimented with one of FrSky's stabilised receivers, fitted into a Max-Thrust Ruckus.  A three-position switch on the Tx selects:

 

1) gyro off

2) normal gyro mode, where the gyro corrects for momentary deviations

3) auto-levelling mode

 

Additionally, gyro gain is controlled by a pot on the Tx.

 

During the model's maiden flight, after normal trimming with the gyro off, with the gain set low I switched in the gyro (switch position 2) and slowly turned up the gain.  It was a gusty day and the model was being buffeted a bit but as the gain increased, the buffeting, fairly suddenly, stopped.  The rest of the flight was much smoother but with no reduction of the responsiveness of the model to my inputs..  So to me they have their value, particularly when they can be controlled from the Tx.  Like many things though it's down to personal taste.

[Outrunner]

I've recently flown for the first time with a gyro and enjoyed it. The gyro is built in to a Lemon receiver and is a 3 axis rate gyro, that is to say it does not self level but corrects any unwanted movement caused by wind gusts. The gyro is switched on and off as required and I have a knob to adjust the gain. I only use it in windy weather especially when the wind is coming across the hedge and causing a lot of turbulence.

 

When flying with the gyro on I cannot tell the difference apart from not getting bumped around by turbulence and the wings stay level.

[leccyflyer]

The thing is, in the wilder and woolier regions of the country, where it almost always seems to be very windy, especially in the autumn, the use of A3SX type of gyro stabilisation really can open up the number of flyable days, where you might otherwise decide just not to bother going out. A couple of my wee Volantex 400mm "warbirds" sit in the front seat of the car, with a bag of batteries and, provided it isn't raining, they will nearly always be able to handle the conditions. It can be blowing 15mph+, but they are still beautifully flyable - the wings rocking at a rate of knots to cope with the turbulence, they dash away downwind and then turn and battle their way upwind - it certainly allows you to get a flying fix, even more so than my usual windy day "hacks" as they  shrug off the worst effects of the turbulence without a care.

[David P Williams]

Auto level has transformed my EDF hand launches. As a right-handed mode 2 flyer it removes the panicky scrabble to get my hand back on the tx as it just climbs out straight and level. Switch it out as soon as I’m comfortably holding the tx again.

Edited October 17, 2023 by David P Williams

[Cuban8]

2 hours ago, Jon - Laser Engines said:

I am firmly in the no gyro camp myself. Just learn to fly the model and accept that all models are different and each has its own requirements. Its what keeps me interestd after 30+ years. if it was super easy and the models flew themselves it would get pretty boring

One of our club's founder members now in his mid-nineties and still getting over the field from time to time when his family can drive him, said to me a few years back when he could still handle the sticks that" the older he was getting, the less exciting he was happy the flying to become" ..................with advancing years, the more I concur with his sentiment. I'm not too proud to take the pressure off if it's possible to do so and it means that ones flying days can be extended so long as you can see the 'ruddy things.

I do take and accept your point though Jon, you being one of the hobby's younger participants i.e. under 60.😉

Edited October 17, 2023 by Cuban8

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

No gyro for me, if my flyings scruffy it's coz I did it, if it's tidy, it's coz I did it.

[ron evans]

Only tried a giro once, in my slope delta. This model is about 40 yrs old and had a servo change about 2000 when I noticed the futaba servos were slowing down a bit.

 

A clubmate gave me an orange giro rx, so I thought I'd try it out to see if it would calm the yaw roll couple which all swept wing/ deltas seem to have at high AOA.

 

Well the the giro didn't help much but I had a bit of fun with roll set on high gain which produced a multi point roll with full deflection.

 

After a couple of hours flight time I put the original rx back in. On my next trip to the slope the model was in the air for a couple of minutes when I lost pitch control, and the model went in.

 

Never had a futaba servo fail before, and I'm wondering now if the extra work the servo has to do ( like a fiddlers elbow ) might have  led to the failure of this well used servo.

 

Probably not an issue with new servos, but something to consider if your servos are getting on a bit.

Edited October 17, 2023 by ron evans

[Kevin Fairgrieve]

I do not have a single plane with a Gyro (unless you count the tiny Eachine joby", that is all about to change though.

 

The X-Fly Eagle that I have on pre order has one, but I suspect that it will soon come out. I have 3 or 4 FrSky S6R S8R that were initially used and then had stabilization switched off. Same for EXPO, only recently have I started to experiment with it.

Many people in the club use them and why not, they are just not for me.
 

[Andy Gates]

All the training aircraft I have are fitted with gyros, like others here the FrSky S6R / S8R units.

 

These are really handy to off load the work required by the students to fight the wind and turbulence that affects our fairly closed in field.

It also opens up times where the wind would make the day unsuitable for training.

 

As others have said, the auto levelling mode is awful to fly requiring a completely different technique to normal flying so this is not used.

 

Cuban8, yes a gyro certainly can help with a squirrelly machine on the ground or in the air, but it does not mitigate setting the machine up properly in the first place.

I was given a very squirrelly Cub to fly, it was a real fight on the ground every single time. Discovered the UC had been fitted the wrong way round giving toe out on the wheels rather than a bit of toe in. Switching it around transformed the plane, still have to be careful but immeasurably improved.

[Lipo Man]

5 hours ago, Cuban8 said:

Ver interesting remarks Lipo Man, I like your pragmatic approach. I doubt if I'd ever go down the flight controller/AS3X/ panic button route, as powerful as they are, but who knows as time goes on and reactions begin to slow?

At the moment, I'm looking at whether technology (even in its simplest form of a single gyro on a rudder) can be of assistance and as a method of reducing workload at a critical part of the flight i.e. the take of with a trickyish model on the ground - 120 size Spitfire ). Once up and away and cleaned up all's fine - even my  landings aren't too bad......usually.

The wind elimination function is surprisingly useful. Turns a borderline flying day into a normal day at the field. With the winter climate we have in the UK that sees pretty useful to me, but aware others have a very different and equally valid point of view!