Safety officers.

[Flyboy3]

Just wondered if things are different in other clubs. When I joined my local club many many years  ago ( still a member) there was one experienced member allocated as Safety Officer. He would duly check our models and advise on flying problems if any. Nowadays every one checks out their own model. Any comments please. Thanks

 

[PatMc]

4 minutes ago, Flyboy3 said:

 When I joined my local club many many years  ago ( still a member) there was one experienced member allocated as Safety Officer. He would duly check our models and advise on flying problems if any. 

 

Sounds a good idea if you want to get as many people as possible anti Safety Officer. 😠

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

We have em, probably better named "Row prevention officer".

 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

It's me in our club, I cheque everything, even the sobriety of the member, and normally accompany them on their first start up I I normally test fly.

[Rich Griff]

A safety officer in my view would be a good idea as experienced eyes could look over your model etc. etc. etc., and give a basic "thumbs up" for the day's flying, subject to actual observed flying.....

 

The possibility of anti safety officer thinking could happen but if rules written into club constitution state safety officers verdicts must be obeyed, and you sign to that condition as part of club membership, then by joining the club you agree to club rules etc. etc. etc .....

 

Maybe a safety committee.....

 

I wonder what the safety officer/committee would say about the servo Rx PCB movement seen in the vidio test thread ?

 

Paul de tour toulon, sir, what would be your verdict on seeing similar in vidio test vidios thread at your club please ?

 

Ok to fly or not ok to fly until fixed and re inspected ?

[GrumpyGnome]

We have a designated safety officer, but it's a pretty low key role...

 

Make sure the safety rules are reviewed, updated and accepted at the annual AGM.

 

Gently remind people of the rules - e.g. park in the right place, put the safety fence up, fly from the pilots box... (the latter often needs a cattle prod)

 

Older members seem to be pretty much self-regulating, and are seemingly more than happy to chide people that overfly wrong areas, taxi in pits, don't communicate intentions etc.

 

Finally, be a full and committed member of the club committee.

 

Regarding airworthiness, op id, failsafe, I don't check - our constitution says all members are responsible for their models safety and 'legality'.

[GrumpyGnome]

Just now, Rich Griff said:

I wonder what the safety officer/committee would say about the servo Rx PCB movement seen in the vidio test thread ?

 

Paul de tour toulon, sir, what would be your verdict on seeing similar in vidio test vidios thread at your club please ?

 

Ok to fly or not ok to fly until fixed and re inspected ?

Irrespective of any designated role, I'd say that plane is not airworthy... 

[GrumpyGnome]

3 minutes ago, Rich Griff said:

A safety officer in my view would be a good idea as experienced eyes could look over your model etc. etc. etc., and give a basic "thumbs up" for the day's flying, subject to actual observed flying.....

I'd hope any experienced flier could be approached to give a model 'the once over'......

[GrumpyGnome]

14 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

It's me in our club, I cheque everything, even the sobriety of the member, and normally accompany them on their first start up I I normally test fly.

What happens if you're not there?

[Brian Cooper]

The wording of CAA (Campaign Against Aviation) Article 241 has made us all Safety Officers. 

 

 Article 241 - Endangering safety of any person or property.

A person must not recklessly or negligently cause or permit an aircraft to endanger any person or property.

 

The crucial word is, "permit". 

if we witness dangerous flying and do nothing, by definition we are permitting it to continue. 

 

[Ron Gray]

The onus of responsibility is on the operator. But no-one should sit back and watch if they think something is wrong (as per Brian's post above).

[leccyflyer]

What Ron and Brian said works for me.

 

The notion of having one person in the club responsible for checking over everyone's model is not a good idea IMO. I might be reading it wrong but no designated "Safety Officer" should be test flying all of the models to be flown at a club site - I certainly wouldn't be a member of such a club.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

39 minutes ago, GrumpyGnome said:

What happens if you're not there?

I don't know as I am not present,,,😂

 

Seriously, we use whatsapp to see who is going to fly, and they ask me if I can sort out their Planes, radios and engines,,,

 

leccy, you don't have to ask my advice, but don't expect me to run down the field with an extinguisher to put your battery out.🤩

[Rich Griff]

Hi Paul, may I ask please, am I safe in the assumption that if my foamy plane appeared at your flying site and was seen to show servo mounting plate movement as seen in the videos, vidio test thread, it would not be deemed airworthy in that state ?

 

Over to you sir...

[Learner]

32 minutes ago, Rich Griff said:

Hi Paul, may I ask please, am I safe in the assumption that if my foamy plane appeared at your flying site and was seen to show servo mounting plate movement as seen in the videos, vidio test thread, it would not be deemed airworthy in that state ?

 

Over to you sir...

Not if you put a bit of glue on it first, might have been quicker than videoing it and posting.

[Lipo Man]

One of the things I most like about our club is that there is nothing like a “safety officer”. Our flying site is well away from any inhabited area and has a wide open strip with no obstacles. The etiquette around anyone wanting to fly anything sketchy is making sure everyone else has landed safely before you attempt aviation. That way:

a) There is no one around at risk, and

b) Other club members can get their phones ready to record the carnage!

Maybe it’s good luck but we seem to have a like minded group with a sensible attitude to risk, and we’re happy for anyone to risk their own model as long as they don’t take liberties with the models or wellbeing of clubmates. 

[ken anderson.]

thankless role that instantly alienates you from the members......

 

ken anderson...ne...1...alien dept.

[GrumpyGnome]

29 minutes ago, ken anderson. said:

thankless role that instantly alienates you from the members......

 

ken anderson...ne...1...alien dept.

Not if it's 'light touch'.....

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

From the BMFA Members Handbook.

 

10.3    The Club Safety Officer

If it is considered to be appropriate, a Club should appoint a competent CLUB SAFETY OFFICER whose duties would be to ensure that both the BMFA and the Club Safety Codes are followed.

However, a Safety Officer acting alone has an almost impossible task and some form of infrastructure should be set up within the club to help the designated officer.

The most successful way to do this is to make the task of Assistant Safety Officer part of the duties of every Committee member.  These Assistants then report to the designated Safety Officer when required.  This will keep the Safety Group to a manageable size but will ensure that there is a recognised safety presence at most flying sessions.

If it is felt that this might not be enough, you can appoint other responsible club members as assistants too.  Examiners, Instructors or senior club members might all be candidates.

It is not recommended that you appoint ‘all club members’ as their own safety officers. Such an approach loses the focus of a smaller group and can become ineffective.

Clubs should educate and encourage their members, particularly new or junior members, to conform to Club safety requirements and should have no hesitation in disciplining persistent offenders.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Our safety officer is the most respected pilot in the club, never upsets anyone when having to remind them of the rules, spots every indiscretion and never puts a foot wrong himself.

 

Unfortunately that's the ideal and as it's me, I'm sure none of them apply although I try to make an effort to go some way towards them!  I certainly welcome any observations from other members in the vein of the old "every member is a safety officer" saying.

 

We require a second set of eyes on any model new to the club - this applies from the newest member to the club chairman.  We have a "panel" of more experienced members who are nominated to perform these checks - they aren't C of As but an opportunity to spot the sort of error that anyone can make in the myriad of tasks when building/assembling a model e.g. a missing servo arm screw, loose control horn etc. etc. or an obvious construction error and should be seen as such and not a transfer of responsibility from the pilot/operator.  Part of the process are range and failsafe checks as well as a noise test for IC.  While the results are recorded, this is really a throw back to the almost all IC days where they were seen as part of a defence to any noise nuisance complaints.

[Ron Gray]

Article 16 

 

5.2 Remote Pilot Responsibilities

 

• Ensure that your aircraft is in a safe condition to complete the flight safely.

[Arthur Harris]

1 hour ago, Andy Symons - BMFA said:

From the BMFA Members Handbook.

 

10.3    The Club Safety Officer

I......

It is not recommended that you appoint ‘all club members’ as their own safety officers. Such an approach loses the focus of a smaller group and can become ineffective.

...

I agree that making everyone responsible means that no one is responsible- that's human nature. On the other hand, if someone is flying dangerously and doesn't realise it (flying too close to the flight line or pits, or is just incompetent), then it is up to anyone witnessing this to report it to the Committee and get them supervised. I've seen a couple of people fly over their heads, so they have to crane their necks or even turn around to keep control. To my mind that is reckless. The last thing I want is to be whacked in the head by a model when I am not near the flightline (not that I would want it then, either). If it is a one off due to pilot error, fair enough, but if it is consistent, it needs addressing.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Several posts moved to a more relevant topic - remember this thread is discussing the role of a safety officer.

 

[PDB]

At one club I flew at I’ve had models flown directly at me, flown low over the pits, flown close to parked cars and flown out of control over a live strip used by full size gliders.

 

I reported these incidents to the safety officer who did nothing because he didn’t like conflict. I then reported these incidents to the committee who again took no action.

 

I’m no longer a member of this club.

[Arthur Harris]

12 minutes ago, PDB said:

At one club I flew at I’ve had models flown directly at me, flown low over the pits, flown close to parked cars and flown out of control over a live strip used by full size gliders.

 

I reported these incidents to the safety officer who did nothing because he didn’t like conflict. I then reported these incidents to the committee who again took no action.

 

I’m no longer a member of this club.

I don't blame you. A safety officer who doesn't like conflict? Maybe he was nominated because no one else wanted the role and he lacked the assertion to refuse it? I don't actually think we need a safety officer at clubs, just an open club culture so people can speak their minds. I think novice flyers should be welcomed, but if they consistently disregard safety advice, they should be unwelcomed. Actually, most novice flyers are keen to fly safely, imo.