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Are there any electric (or even hybrid) estate cars which can fit 3x 1.2m and 2x1.1m span models in, for a trip to the field -160mile round trip?  Or is that still something which is not within the ideal operating parameters of EVs?

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On 08/05/2022 at 16:45, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

What did your battery and switching system cost Matty ?, I have 20 panels on my roof so worth looking into,,,

 

On 09/05/2022 at 16:01, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

I produced 6.452.929 watt hours  so 1.000 more where I live, "however" the electric prices have rocketed so I expect that will change the payback date,,,

 

17 hours ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

£10.000 you wish !, looking at the whole package, panels, battery's and charger probably more like £30.000 plus...

 

5 hours ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Fact ! the price of my 20 x300 watt panels in 2018,  in France 18.000€,,,no battery's or plug for a car.

 

I'm not sure why you posted such old costs which (as confirmed by others and my own experience of purchasing a large scale solar and battery install this year) are clearly no longer representative. Key points:

  • Your install is 20x300W = 6KWp system . That's very big domestic system, probably 50% bigger than most install. So if we take your 2018 figures and scale them accordingly that means a representative installation in France back in 2018 would have been ~12,000 Euros / £10,250.
  • We know panel costs have been reducing for decades, and that is no different in recent years. This site (updated April 2022) gives current representative UK figures, and puts a 4KWp system at £6-8k, or 7-9.4k Euros. That was before all VAT costs were dropped to zero in the last budget, so costs should be another 5% lower than that.
  • Battery systems in 2018 were at a very early stage of development, and those costs appear to have dropped more than solar in the same period. I can't find any figures tracking this over time, but from talking to suppliers in the last few months all told me that the system 5KWh system we have bought is now half the cost of an equivalent sold in 2020. To give you some idea, our 5.76KWp system with a 5KWh battery was just under £12k / 14k Euros (not including the optional pigeon proofing!). VAT costs for batteries have also recently dropped to 0% in the UK making their install even more cost effective.

So in summary, check by all means but your £30k estimate looks likely to be ~x bigger than the reality, unless there as some crazy taxations on solar in the EU/France we are not aware of?

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10 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

Are there any electric (or even hybrid) estate cars which can fit 3x 1.2m and 2x1.1m span models in, for a trip to the field -160mile round trip?  Or is that still something which is not within the ideal operating parameters of EVs?

MG5?

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

Are there any electric (or even hybrid) estate cars which can fit 3x 1.2m and 2x1.1m span models in, for a trip to the field -160mile round trip?  Or is that still something which is not within the ideal operating parameters of EVs?

 

There are almost no EV estates at this point, mainly because the manufacturers research has told them SUVs aregoing to sell better (don't shoot the messenger!). The MG5 is probably the most likely of what is onsale today, but that may still be too small and it's sticker WLTP range of 250 miles might be a bit tight for a fully loaded journey on the motorway on a cold day without charging. I suspect the 80KWh Skoda Enyaq or maybe the VW ID.4 would meet your needs, but you'd need to research that more specifically in terms of the load space. The Enyaq was definitely my favourite as a model carrier of the ones I looked at, but they start at £40k so don't get the government grant... (not even the 60KWh version does any more).

 

Edited by MattyB
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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Rich Griff said:

Kia/Hyundai fuel leak issue as well...

 

YouTubers, so probably duff info just like zafira I suppose...

 

Please, if posting statements like these as "facts", post a link to the source you got them from so we dont have to do that ourselves to determine if this is real or FUD. Thanks.

Edited by MattyB
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Thanks gents - that's quality information. I hadn't heard of the MG5 and haven't had an MG since my venerable Metro in the 1980's. From a first look the seats down capacity is quite a bit less than my current Mondeo, which was a wee bit less than my previous Mondeo. Food for thought though.

 

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Paul, regarding the Fiat, I couldn't see which batteries were available with the Red trim, their website is rubbish for finding specific specs.

 

For the 500e overall, they quote up to 199miles, which is with the 42kWh battery.

https://www.fiat.co.uk/electric-cars/range-batteries-charging

 

The 500e is also available with a 24kWh battery, which is quoted as 118miles, according to the Honest John review.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/fiat/500/electric/

 

This ties in with the figures you have seen. Too small to carry models though!

 

 

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The MG5 is now available with a bigger (longrange) battery which gives a WLTP range of 250 miles, which should be a safe real world 200. Costs around £28k. Unfortunately, the seat backs don't fold very flat, so not so good for model transportation.  7 year warranty is attractive.

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For the unbelievers here are the facts,,,, someone thinks that I may be a British politician,,,,?, I did see it myself at the Fiat garage on the descriptive notice next to the car,,,

https://www.automobile-propre.com/voitures/fiat-500e-electrique/autonomie/

 

https://www.fiat.fr/500-electrique/nouvelle-500-red/technologie

 

 Picture is in french for the educated,,,?

DSC00115-2048.jpg

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Paul, I believe you! I'm just wondering whether, in France, the Red version of the 500e only comes with the smaller battery pack. I couldn't find the page you've posted above on the French website, but my O level French was 50 years ago!

The only range information I could find was this, which must be for the bigger battery. I wish manufacturers would put a clear table on their sites so that the specifications and prices of their cars could be compared. To be fair, MG do this.

 

16523808011164226269772198728554.jpg

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7 hours ago, leccyflyer said:

Are there any electric (or even hybrid) estate cars

I have a Toyota Corolla Sports Touring hybrid estate which can carry my Extra Wot and Giant Super Sportster plus a small foamie, or, like today my SIG Rascal 110” plus a couple of small foamies. My criteria, when I bought it, was that it needed to be able to carry my F3A 2m model plus all necessary accessories. I’ve been looking at EVs with a view to change and the 2 models that I like are the Ionic 5 and the EV6 both of which have deceptively large load spaces but am having difficulty justifying spending £45K bearing in mind that I no longer do a high annual mileage.

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9 hours ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Fiat  51 klw Red 500 this is what Fiat announce,,,,

 

190 km en mode électrique, that's 120 miles !!!! nooo 200 milos

 

They list two options in the UK, 70kw motor with 24 kwh battery and  118 miles range and a 87kw motor with 42 kwh battery and 200 miles range, the second being £3,000 more expensive.

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9 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

am having difficulty justifying spending £45K bearing in mind that I no longer do a high annual mileage.

Same here Ron so the only justification for me to go electric is that I want to help save the planet, assuming going electric will do that but lets not get into that minefield.

 

I am 70 my car is two years old with very low mileage so it could last until I am 90. There is no rush for me to change now but in the future who knows.

 

Steve  

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With all the rage of going electric, there’s only a finite supply of lithium for the battery? Are they recyclable? How much energy is used to recycle them and what other battery chemistry could replace it.

 

 I’ve still got some reservations. Heavy goods vehicles used a lot more energy than Mrs Miggins going out in her Leaf. There is a lot of pollution caused by tyre wear and brake dust...presumably this will still continue.

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@EarlyBirdsnap, well I’m 70 later on this year! My Toyota has done 18K miles but most of that was pre pandemic, now I reckon on no more than 7K per year. So the maths of saving money by going electric against the purchase outlay just doesn’t add up. However am I just wanting to buy a ‘green’ flag to make me feel better? Maybe in a couple of years time when the choice of EVs will be much greater.

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1 hour ago, Ron Gray said:

Maybe in a couple of years time when the choice of EVs will be much greater.

Indeed. I see that, as well as the enormous Kia EV8, there's now an EV9 also promised for next year, together with the Hyundai Ioniq 7. There are only concept versions to view at the moment but both look to be promising as model haulers. Like you, I know the economic justification isn't there (but then was there ever an economic justification for buying a new car!). I do though still fancy the idea of going electric.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, cymaz said:

 I’ve still got some reservations. Heavy goods vehicles used a lot more energy than Mrs Miggins going out in her Leaf. There is a lot of pollution caused by tyre wear and brake dust...presumably this will still continue.

On the subject of brake dust, most electric vehicles incorporate regenerative braking, which, as you lift your foot off the accelerator, turns the electric motors into generators, putting some charge back into the battery and, as a by-product, applying a braking force to the car.  In day-to-day driving I hardly ever use the brakes in the Tesla.  In fact I make a point of doing so occasionally to prevent undue corrosion on the brake disc surfaces.  Obviously, in an emergency situation or if your driving style is to race up to a junction and brake hard then you will need to apply the brakes but otherwise they are little used.  You soon get used to so-called "one-pedal" driving.

Edited by Tim Kearsley
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The way NOT to "save the planet" is for everyone to rush out and buy brand new resource hungry EVs. My thought is (always has been) to run a car for as long as possible until the end of its life. When it does reach the end of its life, that's the time to consider going electric. Mine is 12 years old now and due for it's MOT this month. That will decide my next move.

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Just now, Gary Manuel said:

The way NOT to "save the planet" is for everyone to rush out and buy brand new resource hungry EVs. My thought is (always has been) to run a car for as long as possible until the end of its life. When it does reach the end of its life, that's the time to consider going electric. Mine is 12 years old now and due for it's MOT this month. That will decide my next move.

Indeed, the greenest car you can drive is the one that you already have.

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1 hour ago, Ron Gray said:

@EarlyBirdsnap, well I’m 70 later on this year! My Toyota has done 18K miles but most of that was pre pandemic, now I reckon on no more than 7K per year. So the maths of saving money by going electric against the purchase outlay just doesn’t add up. However am I just wanting to buy a ‘green’ flag to make me feel better? Maybe in a couple of years time when the choice of EVs will be much greater.

There's a lot of good sense being talked in this thread - it's great to read. The lockdown has had a big impact in terms of miles covered and until a couple of months ago my mileage was well down on my usual, but it is starting to creep up, though it will never reach what it was 10 years ago when I was commuting from Cheshire to Aberdeen on a weekly basis. That wait a few years is good advice - my habit has been to run my vehicles until the end of their useful life and the Mondeo is working very well as a model transport at the moment. I'm not seeing that any of the current offerings can fil that role at a reasonable price.

 

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The way I see it is that manufacturers have seen the early EV push as a way of making more money, in other words the vast majority available now are aimed at those who are happy to, and do not need to, think twice about paying a lot of money so that they can ‘wear the green badge’, green upmanship if you like. I know that this doesn’t apply to all but why else are manufacturers targeting that end of the market rather than the masses?

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