Speed limits in Wales

[Tim Kearsley]

1 hour ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

Time to move on.  Scoring points doesn’t make an interesting topic. 

Agreed.  There'll be no more response from me. 

[Rich Griff]

Nice one Dave windy miller, a blue one ?

 

Your kwaka will have gears so should burble along at 20 in first....or second....

 

If it won't then something is wrong....nice bike by the way.

 

Tal y llyn pass up hill will be fun !

Edited September 30, 2023 by Rich Griff

[Frank Skilbeck]

10 hours ago, dave windymiller said:

My kawa H2 (750 two stroke triple engine without reeds) struggles at a steady 30 without having to slip the clutch.  Not sure how it will fare at a constant 20!

 

Gonna try it anyway next year so watch out Machyllenth  🙂

 

 

Has it been tuned up, many years ago I rode my mates round the car park and didn't have problems at low speed. A road test from the time shows the engine at just under 5000 rpm in 1st at 30mph.

[Erfolg]

I was considering the question posed by a contributor as to reliable studies, and their conclusions. Although not counting or having read any in depth, just newspaper quotes, it seems most, if not all, have concluded that measures as, low emissions zones, restricted routes and lowered speed limits are inconclusive, with respect to any reductions sought.

It is acknowledged that stationary traffic, with engines running will emit the highest levels of exhaust emissions. It stands to reasons that low speed limits allow vehicles to run closer together. The next bit would require some maths, to establish a relationship between the exhaust emissions at any speed, and the braking distances. At the end of day all very theoretical, at maximum traffic density possible. The result would at best be indicative. Some published reports have suggested that the restrictions have at best made little to no difference, in some instances worsening the results in other streets. 

 

From an emission stand point, it seems that old diesel buses (as used on bus routes) were the biggest polluters, by a large margin. I am guessing that why there has been a drive for modern buses and more recently electric buses. Apparently local buses are the largest contributors to particulate pollutions from accelerating and stopping. Particularly electric buses due to higher weight issue. An aside at least one study indicated that IC buses with typical passenger occupancy, emit higher emissions than a single occupancy car. Hence the drive to get more people to use buses?

 

With respect to road deaths, it seems logical that lower speeds will results result in lower deaths. One report seemed to indicate that the relationship is less than anticipated. That traffic density and other road users and drivers behaviours is just as significant. Again I have read that deaths per 100, 000 was much higher in the horse drawn era than today, additionally there were very high serious injuries arising from looking after the horses, gathering the feed stock, shoeing etc.

 

Sometimes you  wish you had saved all the articles, then I think, that is a bit anal, and still open to counter claim. Particularly that for some, their believes, dogma, are more important than what may pass for facts. It does seem that many issues relating to private transport have more to do with money making, than anything else.

[J D 8]

      Horses, My dour old Scottish vet to say, " Dangerous both ends and unsafe in the middle." 

[Rich Griff]

Horses, it was so comical watching brenyn the rescue horse chase the vet around the paddock !

 

Brenyn snapped a new 9 inch diameter fence post like a match stick !

 

Thank god rosy was not hurt, rosy being a helper that day.

 

The dents in the horse box had to be seen to be believed !

 

I don't work on Maggie's farm no more.

[dave windymiller]

Yes Frank, it has and has chambers.  H2 surging is a common issue made worse by slackness in the transmission!  It also gets worse at prolonged low speeds when it gets hot through lack of airflow.  One fix is a revised carb kit from the US but this made my bike lose its mojo.  I try not to do prolong low speed, thrash it is the way!!  (@15-20mpg).  Great fun on a track.

Edited September 30, 2023 by dave windymiller

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

No one has mentioned one positive thing about the speed limit in these towns, is that people will keep away and if possible they will go somewhere else, and a few will abandon their cars for bikes.

[J D 8]

 And small shops in said towns may feel the consequence when folk go other places. Only time will tell the outcome.

[Don Fry]

Living in a pretty place, and the shop is lost, I’m not sure I would want the tourists. WW 3 is breaking out round the corner, about a space, surrounded by three houses, owned by persons of 3 nationalities. Divided to three gardens, no common ground in outlook, and one owner, a hermit like (shy, introvert?) allowing the bamboo to grow. Even complaining about his fig tree overhanging the lane. Nice figs. I just borrowed a huge set of step ladders off the village green team. Picked 2.5 kilos. Payment a couple of jars of courgette and fig chutney. I didn’t grow the courgettes either. The figs I dried in the air fried.
I  won’t even mention the other two. They both grace my table, but not together and I keep my mouth  shut. Innocent entertainment.. 
Holiday season gone now, it’s tranquil. 

[MattyB]

54 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

No one has mentioned one positive thing about the speed limit in these towns, is that people will keep away and if possible they will go somewhere else, and a few will abandon their cars for bikes.

It’s not just in towns it’s everywhere there used to be a 30 across the whole Welsh nation!

[Graham Bowers]

1 hour ago, dave windymiller said:

Yes Frank, it has and has chambers.  H2 surging is a common issue made worse by slackness in the transmission!  It also gets worse at prolonged low speeds when it gets hot through lack of airflow.  One fix is a revised carb kit from the US but this made my bike lose its mojo.  I try not to do prolong low speed, thrash it is the way!!  (@15-20mpg).  Great fun on a track.

One of the dream bikes of my yoof 😉

[Frank Skilbeck]

2 hours ago, dave windymiller said:

Yes Frank, it has and has chambers.  H2 surging is a common issue made worse by slackness in the transmission!  It also gets worse at prolonged low speeds when it gets hot through lack of airflow.  One fix is a revised carb kit from the US but this made my bike lose its mojo.  I try not to do prolong low speed, thrash it is the way!!  (@15-20mpg).  Great fun on a track.

A chap I knew at uni had a H1, he used to have two sets of spark plugs, one for round town and a 2nd set for out of town, changed them when he went for a blast out of Manchester. Not the same but I had a piston port YR5 at the time, few weeks in Manchester and I could lay a smoke screen for miles up the M61 when I was going home................ 

[ron evans]

12 hours ago, MattyB said:

It’s not just in towns it’s everywhere there used to be a 30 across the whole Welsh nation!

This is not correct Matty B.

 

Drove to our club field yesterday,a 15/20 min trip crossing two valleys to get to the cub site nestling in a third.

 

All villages are now 20, as are the 4 schools on the way, but 4 of the roads linking the villages, with few houses and parked cars have remained 30.

 

So our council at least have not introduced a blanket 30 to 20 change.

 

Managed to get in 3 flights before the wind picked up, rolling over the trees making landings a roller coaster affair. So a cup of coffee to warm up and we headed home.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Have they added 30 mph repeater signs to these roads?  My understanding was the default position was that all roads subject to a 30 mph limit (i.e. any road with street lamps and no other markings after the initial 30 mph signs) have been reduced to 20 mph whatever the signs read.
 

It was actually illegal for councils to add repeaters in the old 30 mph zones which lead to one local to me RAISING a 30 mph road to 40 mph in order to be able to add repeaters…a bit gutting after I got caught by a laser gun a few month’s previously!

[ron evans]

1 hour ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

Have they added 30 mph repeater signs to these roads?  My understanding was the default position was that all roads subject to a 30 mph limit (i.e. any road with street lamps and no other markings after the initial 30 mph signs) have been reduced to 20 mph whatever the signs read.
 

It was actually illegal for councils to add repeaters in the old 30 mph zones which lead to one local to me RAISING a 30 mph road to 40 mph in order to be able to add repeaters…a bit gutting after I got caught by a laser gun a few month’s previously!

I believe one stretch of 30 did have a repeater sign, but there shouldn't be any confusion as the villages are signed up as 20 and then signed up as 30 or 40 after you pass through.

[MattyB]

2 hours ago, ron evans said:

This is not correct Matty B.

 

Drove to our club field yesterday,a 15/20 min trip crossing two valleys to get to the cub site nestling in a third.

 

All villages are now 20, as are the 4 schools on the way, but 4 of the roads linking the villages, with few houses and parked cars have remained 30.

 

So our council at least have not introduced a blanket 30 to 20 change.

Perhaps a slight misunderstanding here… the default in Wales in all built up areas is now 20mph:

 

“We have introduced a default 20mph speed limit on restricted roads across Wales. 
 

Restricted roads are usually located in residential and built-up areas where there are lots of people. They often have street lights on them, placed no more than 200 yards apart.“

 

So yes, the 20mph policy is absolutely country wide, but you are correct that 30s previously in place that were not in built up areas can remain. Local authorities can also grant exceptions in built up areas which you can see here. However, it looks like very few exceptions have actually been granted at this point though; the vast majority are still in process. Based on that and your description of the 30mph roads you were on, I suspect they were in the “not built up” category.

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by MattyB

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Rather woolly wording - “usually”, “often” …

[ron evans]

Looks like it will take while to be sorted and settle down, and I don't think anyone could be done for speeding until proper signs are in place.

 

Looking through the window at passing traffic, sadly hardly any drivers are doing 20.

[MattyB]

18 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

Rather woolly wording - “usually”, “often” …

Agreed. Apparently there have been issues with signage too which have caused confusion…

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/wales-20mph-speed-limit-roads-b2413611.html

Edited October 1, 2023 by MattyB

[Outrunner]

Do they need to show the speed limit signs in English and Welsh?

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

8 minutes ago, Outrunner said:

Do they need to show the speed limit signs in English and Welsh?

Metric for us foreigners ?.

[PatMc]

I don't expect ED's blatantly political post to remain after a mod has spotted it. 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

A post gone, to discuss topics like this one, politics will get a mention and provided it's not partisan it can stay, go too far and it's gone.

[Mike T]

6 minutes ago, PatMc said:

I don't expect ED's blatantly political post to remain after a mod has spotted it. 

I correctly predicted (to myself) that a counterblast would be a waste of time 😉