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I got things connected up and all the bits glued on. I got the ESC in place, the Rx in, and the elevator and rudder servos in. D.D. Tail sorted. ESC. Rx

I’m amazed and really pleased that so many are willing to try this inexpensive covering material. Spreading the word to keep costs down!

Thanks David -it's been a long held dream to have a decent workshop, having spent a long time working away from home, coming home for the weekends and with the models usually occupying one room, but with not a lot of room to work. The outbuilding conversion took quite a lot of planning, but I've borrowed lots of ideas from magazine and other modeller's workshops and sheds. I wanted to have a couple of 360 degree access benches, as well as my trusty main bench which was made from a draughting machine. It was about 80% finished when the first lockdown started and the second fix electrics and finishing couldn't be completed for months. I decided that I needed a lot of storage for models and kits outside of the workshop, then had the idea of putting a mezzanine floor in the barn to house the kit mountain. The finishing touches were adding wall rack for holding my fleet of funfighter sized models ready to grab and go. I did put some pictures in my gallery in the old forum, but those photos are all mixed in now. Here's a piccy of the model storage racks -I've added another bay since then and plan to add a couple more in the near future.

It's been a great week back in the saddle. 4 incident free sessions, 27 flights including 3 successful maidens - my Mpx Lentus and Dane-rc Wisel XL plus a Clubmate's Mpx EasyGlider 4. Let's hope it all continues in the same vein.

I've looked at the source code of the MPM for the Hitec protocol, and it appears to be handling the tuning in a different way. I've asked on the Multiprotocol thread on RCGroups about this. Mike

The easing of "Stay Home" and start of "Stay Local" was my first chance to get out flying since last September. I've flown a few times from the garden, but this was a first trip to the club field, which is only a couple of miles away -literally five minutes drive. Unfortunately there was nobody else there, which was a shame, as no opportunity for a socially-distanced blether. It was fantastic to get out and up in the fresh air though - so I'm a very happy bunny right now. ? It was very much a case of flying some old faithfuls as I knew the thumbs would be rusty, but I had hoped to remaiden my venerable Mini Astro Hog electric conversion - she last flew more than 15 years ago, with an OS. 10 FP on board. After a few bottle-building flights with my Easyglider and Tucano, the wind had slightly got up and the grass was just a little too long for my FW190 to ROG cleanly The wind was also now directly across the strip, so I wasn't going to try to get off in 10m. I think that I'll get a few more post lockdown sorties under my belt before committing to a maiden flight - i've got a load of models that I've fettled/assembled during the lockdown waiting for a maiden, I'm sure than many of you are in the same boat. I definitely recommend taking a well sorted, familiar model for those first post-lockdown flights.

Other things did get in the way but progress was made. First the rear fuselage built in my usual "unusual" style, vertically! Its very empty inside. The biggest former has been removed so it can be joined to the centre section with an internal overlap. The centre section is built slightly differently using the wing as a support with some temporary jury struts. The planking goes on and the jury struts removed.. The end result is strong, rigid and light but will be extra ordinarily difficult to repair.? A short front section is also required but as the fuselage is completely hollow front to back it is safe to join then all together. The extreme front and rear fuselage sections will actually have stuff inside them so are bit more complex to make.

One thing I would add here is that experience and skill don't always make for a good teacher. I was in a club where the 'expert' appointed himself as the club teacher, but was generally to be found impatiently taking the tx off the student every few minutes or showing off with 'demonstrations'. The essence of training is to teach people to fly just well enough to be safe and able to fly and land in one piece reasonably consistently. Most of the real learning comes after you take off the reins.

Hopefully I`ll be back flying by then.

I made mine from MDF, glued and screwed. Partition shelves one one side with one vertical for sheet on the other using post-it notes between the different thicknesses.

The reporting form is just a web page so can already be accessed and used on a smart phone........ GG

I think common sense has to be used here - and yes, I know that it isn't a defence in law. Let's say that in your scenario, the model crashes behind a hedge into what you knew to be an agricultural field which should be empty unless a tractor was working in it. You go to retrieve it and other than a few slightly alarmed pigeons, nobody is in sight and no damage has been caused to the field. You can fairly state that there was no endangerment to persons or property and you were able to monitor the flight to a split second before losing sight of the model. Alternatively, you arrive to find a concerned boyfriend comforting his swooning girlfriend amidst the wreckage of their picnic which has been deranged by your wayward Wot 4 - happily they were canoodling in the standing corn several feet from the impact while trespassing on the land. This is obviously reportable as would be the case if anyone were within a reasonable distance at the time of impact or the crash site was the playground of the local infant school. In essence, if there was a perceivable risk, go through the reporting process but if you honestly believe that nobody was put in any danger then it doesn't require any action. It's rather similar to the old conundrum of whether a falling tree in a deserted forest makes any noise... With an infinite variety of circumstances possible, I can't see how any hard and fast definitions could be possible and any legal judgement would hinge on whether you took reasonable actions in deciding whether to file a report - did you feel lucky there was nobody near or would it have come as a shock that somebody was?. If you carried the logic that something might have happened if circumstances had been different to extremes, surely every flight by a model or full sized aircraft could potentially endanger someone!

FrSky protocols, when used with a FrSky Tx module and FrSky receiver don't need fine tuning. Any Multiprotocol module using a protocol with the CC2500 RF chip (that includes FrSky protocols) do need fine tuning. I have several MPM modules (6 I think!) and they are all different, varying between -40 and +40 when using FrSky protocols. Mike

I stick it together and cover it with film.

At the moment I store sheet balsa on the shelves under my butcher's block free standing building bench. When I get a round tuit I intend to make a pigeonhole style set of separators to let me stack the balsa more efficiently. Strip balsa, hardwood, dowels, cf rod and tube, plastic and ,metal tubes and ;piano wire is stored stood on end in a map rack. That is not ideal for balsa strip, because it bends, but like others in the thread I prefer to cut strip for a job, using a balsa stripper, so don;t carry a large stack of strip. I have a set of fish-boxes, about A3 in size that holds sorted scrap of balsa sheet, block, strip, liteply, ply, hardwoods, plastic sheet and depron. There's usually a big enough piece of those materials in the scrap boxes to do small repairs and other jobs.

Sorry Steve thats not going to work. Leave the port side open as that is not your issue. You just need to blank off the empty space so the air cannot escape around the engine. There is clearly still confusion on this so i have made a quick video to try and explain it better. I can help with the temp sensor too...throw it away ? The temperature range of an engine is pretty broad, but the limit depends on a number of things like quality of the oil, how long does it operate at a given temperature, what is the load etc. I cant give you a number so just dont bother with it .

Not a fan. a correctly set up trainer model should be more than stable enough and with the right rates should not be so vicious the student just flips it on its back. The other issue is that you make the student learn twice by using a stabiliser as they might do ok with it on, but then have to learn all over again with it off. Many of the students i taught who had come, self taught, using stab equipped models really struggled when it came to takeoff and landing on their new non equipped models as they had come to rely on the stab system to keep things under control. It also gave them a false sense of their ability and lead them to buy models that were too advanced too early leading to a number of crashes. No doubt some will disagree, but in my experience the best trainer is a classic 40-46 size model. It can be electrocuted these days if you want, my choice would be a 50 4 stroke using a 13x5 prop, but electric would be fine. Its the size and weight of the model that is important. Trying to learn with a foamy is hopeless as the models just dont stall and are useless if you ever want to fly anything else.

That is actually true of any form of education, and I think we can all find examples back in our school days. Often the best instructors are those who didn't find learning to fly themselves all that easy.

Local small slope, late afternoon, windy and turbulent in the gusts due to upwind geology, and quite cold in the north-easterly... but excellent (high-rates, high expo) fun!

The document laminate is great. As well as covering my planes, I am using them for covering my plans (hence using them without any other film on top them during the building process).. I also cover and my cork building mat.. It is really versatile..

Yes Grumpy Gnome, spot on. I have spent some time over 2 days reading and digesting the BMFA writings regarding this subject. To be honest, I found it far more simple than others in various places were making it. Well done BMFA and Thank You for your time and your efforts.

Showing the very short stub left for fixing the wheel collet, I will try and disguise said collet if I can. I will replace the screw with a grub screw in the collet at least. D.D.

The notion of visually impaired people flying R/C is intriguing. I suppose that it would depend of the level and type of vision loss, but I would think that FPV would be a very workable solution for someone who is limited to only being able to see well very close up and is therefore able to build models, but would find conventional line of sight flying impossible. Coupled with a stabilisation system or even an autopilot I'd think a whole world of possibilities could be opened up to those with even very limited vision to fly their models when coupled with sensible safety precautions.

I had thought about stacking balsa to make a cone, but..... the main axle wasn't long enough, so had to make them flat. I could have added the cone after fixing the wheel on, but I had almost lost the will to live by then . LOL ? However, I agree, making your own stuff does bring a lot of satisfaction. Those discs/covers are beautiful Danny. D.D.

Part of the satisfaction for me is creating these things, sometimes that isn't easy. But taking a cheaper option and making it work will always be my preferred path ? The wheels for my Hawker Fury for example, ply disks stacked up, small 6mm I.D bearings, and some litho plate dishes. The tyres are neoprene chord. Cheap as chips. Maybe a bit less than £93 in my pocket, but at least 90! Cheers Danny

This is the AOP6 I owned 1/5 of for a while. The flaps are the obvious difference to other versions. Perhaps I can do this one day, converting a DB kit would certainly be the easiest route. It look’s interesting.

Seems sensible outcome - thanks BMFA!

Second video with more aerobatics thrown in for good measure.

That is great news. I am inspired to update my original 50" span Peggy Sue. Just been looking at the plan and there is a lot that could be done there. Not least the copious use of 1/64" ply that would cost a fortune these days. Also standard size servos. That was 21 years ago!!!

A couple of days ago I visited our local flying site with a fellow member who would still classify himself as a "learner". He has been flying a Bixler - a model a lot of people recommend as a trainer - but was complaining that he didn't seem to be progressing. Amongst my collection of models is a Veron Robot (early 60's trainer). I've been using it with a "giga-ised" reed transmitter to get my hand back in, but for the day, I bound it to my Taranis. The Robot was originally designed for single-channel, but many people added elevators and throttle. Mine has these added features, and is powered by an elderly OS 15 (2.5cc). It takes off fairly smartly, and once at altitude, I throttled it back to about half throttle, and set the rates to about 60% before handing the box to my "pupil". With a little bit of verbal guidance, he managed 3 or 4 circuits without any physical intervention on my part. I only had to take over to increase the throttle slightly, as it was slowly losing height. Once back up to altitude, and with a bit more power, he managed several more circuits on his own, again, with minimal input from me! After the flight he confided that he was amazed at how easy it was to fly, and how much of a confidence boost it had been for him. NO stabilisers, no buddy box - just a properly designed model for the purpose! I still maintain that there is not currently a model on the market that can compete with the Veron Robot or KeilKraft Mini-Super as a basic trainer. -- Pete

Absolutely spot on. Chris, regarding your windy day example i would tell the student we are going up and we would just fly the day as normal. Without the stab windy days are brilliant for teaching as there isnt time for the student to think, they have to react instinctively, and this is often a good thing as many students over think and then do nothing/the wrong thing. Once they start to see their reactions are instinctive their confidence improves rapidly. Its also really good for circuit planning as they know about the turbulent area's and i leave them to make choices about how to avoid them by thinking ahead of the model. its also general prep for flying on days that are not flat calm. Depending on the ability of the student at the time, i may do all the takeoff/landing so we dont break anything, or i may only do that for the first flight and then give them the choice. If they decide they want to try a takeoff in the howling gale, we brief it heavily, i may even fly a few examples, and then i let them try. Same thing with landing. There is an element of risk, but its their risk, they choose to take it and they didnt have to. I could have flown all the takeoff's but they decided they wanted to give it a go. If the model gets bent, sure its unfortunate but its still a learning opportunity. IF they get it right, then as before we have a real sense of achievement and it means that windy days are one less thing to fear. If you fly with the stab on, and the student gets used to that, they will be totally lost when flying a model later down the line and there is no stab to hold their hands. You just dont learn anything when its easy. The question im keen to hear answers on is this. What is the primary goal of training on a given day? Further their efforts to learn to fly long term, or, to make life easy so they have a good time on the day? To me these two are almost mutually exclusive as you cant learn to fly if you never get the chance because we are trying to make things artificially easy.

Thanks Mike. Ken...it's weird that you lost the signal,one increment either way whilst trying to fine tune but had no problems with range test and/or loss of signal/telemetry while flying. I'm a little baffled by it (then again that's my normal state!)

Very neat all over! Re wheels, I am always amazed at the price of accessories/spare parts which makes me wonder at the low cost of some of the electric foamies. I know these are designed down to a price, but it still surprises me. GG

Thanks for reply.I managed to answer my question by internet search. It seems it's a good idea to carry out the fine tune where possible,no matter what protocol, due to variations in the oscillator crystals used in multiprotocol modules. BTW Andy,I found the documentation that you provided me the link to,very informative.Thankyou. Pete

Getting there Now. D.D.

I was gonna leave it coz threads drifting off topic, but if you mask clumsy handling with expo, how do you develop a feel and better handling ? If you put big surface movements on, and dumb it down with expo, how do you develop knowledge on setting up ? Where's your skill base on setting up and more refined handling, which you'll need to fly more difficult models in the future ? It's side stepping an important part of the learning process for me.

Here is the video of the first flight, as above strong wind and cap mounted Runcam = not very good vid!

In reality if you keep the servo movement to 30 degrees either side of neutral, the movement is a close approximation of linear:

The way I read it is that it requires us to report occurrences that occur over 400ft, not just going over 400ft. Therefore if you are over 400ft and do not have a safety related event, then you do not report because there has been no occurrence. This is why clarification in plain english with examples would be useful.

I built 36”+ wide drawers under my work benches. This is the longer bench which isn’t tidy anymore! Scrap balsa, piano wire, aluminium sheet etc in one, laser cut parts for current build in another and balsa sheet and strip in the drawer below the other bench. It amazes me that you can buy a pair of very sturdy 450mm ball raced drawer runners from Screwfix for £6. So why do retracts cost so much?

I don't tend to store any great amount of strip, I prefer to cut it from sheet stored on edge when I need it.

At the point where I bought a stash of balsa, I also had some shelves and things from Ikea. This gave me some wide boxes, more than 36" long and a couple of inches deep, and also sheets of that mega-cardboard (2 layers of paper with a honeycomb if vertical paper between). A layer of 1/2" maga-cardboard at the bottom to stiffen the box and dividers to make three 4"wide portions for soft, med, hard. The other balsa stash is in the box that it came in from SLEC. They are stored in the house, and I try to keep them horizontal on something flat. I have mostly sheets and very little strip. That is all bound together in a bundle in the box, again just as it arrives from SLEC.

What an interesting question and weirdly I was chatting to another club’s chairman about this yesterday. There are lots of ways of skinning a cat and not necessarily simple but we have found this works best and a high percentage of our trainees do actually learn to fly, stay with the hobby and become regulars with all of the obvious advantages. Prospective members that haven’t got a model, visit the club have a go on one of the club’s trainers, on the buddy, so they can have “taster” lesson. If they then want to join and a space is available then they are given advice on what equipment to get etc and start training. Our club’s training/ solo flying programme has evolved over time, along the BMFA’s guidelines and now takes place on defined days, primarily on Saturday’s from 9.00am – approx 2.00pm and also during BST 5.00pm until dusk on Wednesday’s. We use a dedicated Whatsapp group to keep trainees informed (or call them). During this time they naturally and gradually get to understand the club rules, BMFA/ RCC stuff etc and the questions part of the Fixed Wing A test. Our examiners don’t get involved with any testing until a trainer advises them that a trainee is ready. There are a few routes to being allowed to fly solo (outside of the training environment). 1, If the prospective member has their own model and a FW A or above then a proving flight of basic competency is all that is required (must inc relevant calling and an understanding of our flying rules) – Take off, fly a few circuits within the flying boundaries and then a landing on the strip and they are good to go. 2, As above, but if found a bit wanting/ rusty then they have to attend the training sessions until they can reliably do this. If they can fly solo but just need a bit of supervised practice then a few sessions is usually all it takes. If they are really dodgy, they have to go on the buddy until they are at the FW A standard (see below for buddy arrangements). 3, We also have several members mentoring mates/ family and they are both encouraged to also attend the training sessions although no problem if they want to make their own arrangements to meet at other times. 4, After joining, absolute novices must attend the training sessions, regularly and with serviceable equipment. We insist on them having their own buddy system of 2 Tx’s, their own either i.c. or electric trainer (ideally a 60”+ wingspan, we like the Seagull E-Pioneer or Arising Star, but anything high wing and “trainery” is ok) and all of their own field equipment etc. We provide lots of guidance on equipment and quite often existing members have suitable 2nd hand stuff for sale (usually from our previous trainees). The 1st couple of sessions we put a fair amount of effort into getting the model and radios fully set up, fail-safe, range checks etc and go through all of the pre-flight checks with the trainee. This pays dividends down the line as we have quite a few members that help with training and they don’t mind doing the flying but most don’t want to get involved in the initial setting up or 1st flights (too much responsibility?). As soon as the model is ready they start flying and this involves getting the hang of calling, circuits within the boundaries at a fairly constant height and making sure they know how to carry out pre/ post flight checks of the model and controls etc. Once they can do that, we move onto rectangular circuits. Then rectangular circuits with descents to approx head height and slow flying down the strip with rudder steering and straight climb outs. This gets repeated, a lot, until they are fairly consistent. We also start taxing/ lining up for take-off practice during this period. Landings are next (usually not a problem by this stage, as they are used to flying low and slow, just throttling back and hang onto the elevator and they are down – phew!). After this straight onto take-offs which are usually a non-event by then. A few more sessions of “whole flights” and they come off the buddy and the trainers gradually move away from them until the trainee is properly flying solo – yay. After that back on the buddy for trimming, figure of eights, climbing to altitude and dead stick demo’s. They then go back to solo and carry on practicing these on their own but within the supervised training environment/ sessions. Once they are consistent they do their test and are then let loose. We also do some “Beyond the A” training for basic aerobatics.

My trainee loves his and the best bit...sounds nice as well....now just need to get my engine back at some point! PS No stabilizer required

Hi, There is a lengthy post somewhere on this subject, I am sure someone can find it and post the link. IMHO they have there uses, but fall into two main categories Self levelling – sorry, don’t like them and teaches the novice incorrect inputs…anything you have to hold the stick in the corner just to maintain a constant bank angle is of no help in my book. Stabilization – could be a good idea, if used in an appropriate way and as Dad-flyer says most trainers are high wing and with dihedral so sort of self level anyway so why need a stabilizer? Now comes a couple of opportunities, firstly British weather and teaching/learning in “typical” windy conditions and stabilization can be really helpful as it allows more times you can fly which is a good thing. Most likely be less busy at the field and the student doesn’t get locked in to only fly when its calm mind set. The other is to use a model that is a great flyer but not very stable, I had a Cougar 2000 and E-flite Carbon Yak….and on very low rates are great flyers…fly slow to quite fast, very good power to weight ratio and on high rates (instructor) allows you to get it out of trouble, only issue is they are a bit skitty in windy conditions and this is where the stabilizer smooths it all out nicely. If its not windy switch it off. PS – Stabilizers have limitations on some models and if you fly too slow…the stabilizer won’t save you…

Back up the patch this afternoon! Re-maidened my Wot 4 ARTF (as in just completed conversion from 4s electric to SC40) and it flies a complete treat, so much nicer (for me) than electric. The SC40 was brand new (except for previously running a tank through on the bench) but quickly got it tuned, and with an 11x6 prop seems to suit the model perfectly (for me). Club examiner was also flying (ducted-fan jets, jolly fast!) and gave me a few pointers about tidying things up for my eventual B-Cert.

Danny, I found this old footage of my auster, and I thought you may like to see it. By all means get the mods to delete it if you don't want it on your blog, I won't be offended. Hope you like it. D.D.

I am happy to report that I successfully made the maiden flight with the Scrappee. Unfortunately.......... In my excitement I forgot my camera hat. (Cycle helmet with a go pro on it). However, it flies a treat and I will be buying some more Jon, if you're looking in at all. D.D.

It's that operating beyond visual range which has got us to where we are now, in terms of the imposition of all of this additional regulation. It really ought not be permitted at all and that should have been able to put clear blue water between model flying and BVR drone operations, allowing model flying to proceed as it had done for over 100 years.

hope to be there John, save me a place. cheers