Is IC best for larger models?

[paul devereux]

Looking at various YouTube videos etc, it seems most EP planes are smallish foamies, and most larger planes (like 5 or 6 foot span warbirds) are IC. Is this a general rule- that small sports planes are electric, but you need IC for more exacting planes? Apart from my interest in pioneer planes, which would happily trundle along on minimum power, I do admire the shape of some of the German WW2 warbirds- the Stuka of course, but the Flying Pencil and the HE111 as well. I can imagine these designs don't work well unless they are fairly large span- but that would entail IC power? I'm guessing once you move up from the standard 2200 3C there are more expenses, but adopting all the paraphernalia of IC seems a very big step, one which I'll probably avoid.

[Eric Robson]

I use electric power for warbird twins less chance of an engine failure which is generally terminal, but prefer ic for single engine planes. I can take a petrol or glow plane and fly all day where as 5 to 8 minute flights with electric power and carrying loads of  batteries is not for me. The good thing about electric power is a good clean model with no exhaust sticking out of the side and no mess. 

[Eric Robson]

This is a Warbirds replicas kit I built it is 6ft span flys great two 4s 3600 batteries give it 7mins flight. I have a 6ft span Spitfire petrol power that flew for 40 mins when the throttle stuck just over landing speed, it now has an ignition cut switch 

[toto]

Which brings us back to that age old question to which there is no " one does all " answer. However, you put a very interesting twist into the " what's best question " by adding the word " Large " .

 

That maybe introduces a different question of efficiencies between " yield " between power output of electric and fossil fuel due to weight and size. Not the convenience of clean but more restricted against messy but better power producing by volume.

 

Possibly the same answer but only " scaled up ".

 

 

[J D 8]

If you fly a range of different size models a snag with electric is the need for a range of different size batts to match. With IC the same fuel be it glow or petrol powers all.

[Nigel R]

If you like engines then use them. 

 

Both are viable at most any model size. Petrol probably cheapest at large sizes. 

[David Davis]

I like four-strokes and four-stroke petrol engines are either not available at a price I can afford or have received very mixed reviews. Consequently I fly four-stroke glows in most of my models, large or small and regard cleaning the models at the end of the day as part of the experience.

 

You can buy very large and powerful electric motors these days which require 6S+ LiPos. In 2013 my club ran a round of the French Aerobatic Championship. All of the competitors used electric motors in their two-metre wingspan models.

 

Though I have a couple of electric flight models, I much prefer messing around with engines. My smallest i/c powered model is a 36" wingspan Veron Cardinal powered by an 0.75cc Mills diesel. On the other hand I have been given an electric powered two-metre wingspan B17 Flying Fortess. I'll get round to flying it one day.

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by David Davis

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

It isn't that simple, electric is easy, no smell or fiddling with engines ie, running in and finding fuel, for me ok up to 4s and 3000mah, gliders are a bit different, 6s

and 3000meh in mine, but you will end up with a lot of battery's, mine are all 3s, and a series lead for my 6s glider.

Then my choice for the bigger stuff ie 1.5/2hp is four strokes, really nice on the ears and long flights, especially on scale planes.

Petrol is for my bigger stuff as 20cc is my starting point, really noisy on the field, cheap to run if you mix your own petrol mix, and cheaper than those big methanols 4 strokes fuel guzzlers.

The other problem is buying and getting methanol these days, price, finding a model shop or on internet paying the exorbitant price to get it delivered,

to buy mine the nearest shop is 100 klm away, so 3 hours, diesel and autoroute costs, some call it "progress".🤢

[Brian Cooper]

I fly with IC (glow and petrol) and with electric. 

With electric, I draw the line at 4s. . Anything after that just gets stupidly expensive. 

Pros: Convenient and less mess.

Cons:  Short flight times, expensive and far more dangerous. 

 

IC power is more preferable for the slightly larger models. 

It gives much longer flight times and is considerably cheaper to run. 

Plus, IC power just sounds right. 

 

But hey ho, we are all different, so use whatever suits you best. 

[Learner]

I fly both and love both for many different reasons and  I think you are missing out if you only fly 3s planes.

A 60 inch aerobatic plane on 6 cells is just a pleasure to fly,

so is a similar sized warbird with a 4 stroke glow.

Please note I do also have 3s planes and have fun flying those too (just in case the 3s police are waiting to jump on me)

[Ron Gray]

I use both electric and IC with my largest leccy model being one with 110” wingspan running on 10s. 99% of F3A (2m wingspan) are electric (10s). So I would say that there is not definitive answer apart from EDF!

 

Regarding costs, I carried out an exercise based on my use of Laser engines and used the 155 as a yardstick (10s equivalent) and was surprised to find very little difference over a 5 year period.

 

Regarding flight times, I tend to limit each flight to 7 or 8 minutes and can achieve that with both electric (excluding EDF) and IC.

 

As for noise, I only use Laser engines in my larger warbirds, electric even with sound systems just doesn’t sound right!

Edited July 26, 2023 by Ron Gray

[GrumpyGnome]

I think the short answer is...... no.

 

These days you have lots of choice - apart from glow engines which are rather thin on the ground.

[Denis Watkins]

1 hour ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

The other problem is buying and getting methanol these days

 

The barmy thing is that methanol Paul, is a Waste Product, in many distillation processes, and manufacturers have to pay to get rid of it.

It should be Free ! ! !

Perhaps " Waste Product " is a bit strong, but Methanol is definitely a bi-product, secondary, in many processes.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Denis Watkins

[David perry 1]

Surely one of the points missing is...do you like i.c.?  Many of us regard glow engines (petrol too but not my cup of tea really) as beautiful things in their own right and as such some models are made specifically to fly the engine.  I know some moan about exhausts and cylinder heads spoiling a plane but ive left many a cowl off just so i can see the engine!  

 

The OP should not regard the powerplant merely as a necessary evil but as another thing to enjoy...or not.

 

I had to smile at the idea of having to garner all the paraphernalia of ic motors...at best a rag and a can of diesel!  Slightly more for glow but compared to charger, charge bag or box,  packs of cells, plugs, discharge meter, etc ...seems reasonably equally placed in my book.  

 

The smell might be an issue but on the other hand i remember still smelling castor on my hands by Wednesday following  a good weekend and smiling as i recalled the fun id had.  Dont get that with lithium!

 

As i get older, now 60, i am collecting more 4 strokes and see a day when i have gone back to glow power exclusively. Maybe the odd edf.  

[Frank Skilbeck]

My 82" wingspan Mick Reeves Hurricane runs on 5000 mah 6s lipos, flies well, but now 2 out of my 3 5000 mah 6s lipos are not delivering adequate performance, so do I spend £150+ on a couple of new lipos or change it to IC. Maybe an easier choice for me as I already have all the IC paraphernalia.

 

BTW good article in this months RCME by Martin Hardy on designing and building multi engined scale models.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Frank Skilbeck

[Jon H]

9 hours ago, Eric Robson said:

I use electric power for warbird twins less chance of an engine failure which is generally terminal

 

This is absolutely not true. The loss of an engine on a twin is not a death sentence if handled correctly. 

 

9 hours ago, paul devereux said:

Looking at various YouTube videos etc, it seems most EP planes are smallish foamies, and most larger planes (like 5 or 6 foot span warbirds) are IC. Is this a general rule- that small sports planes are electric, but you need IC for more exacting planes? Apart from my interest in pioneer planes, which would happily trundle along on minimum power, I do admire the shape of some of the German WW2 warbirds- the Stuka of course, but the Flying Pencil and the HE111 as well. I can imagine these designs don't work well unless they are fairly large span- but that would entail IC power? I'm guessing once you move up from the standard 2200 3C there are more expenses, but adopting all the paraphernalia of IC seems a very big step, one which I'll probably avoid.

 

 

As the others have all correctly said, no. You can do what you like.

 

Personally i find electric models soulless and oh so boring. They fly fine, but they just bore me to tears. Not a single person is likely to go to Duxford and watch a silent Spitfire, and as i mostly fly scale trying to emulate some of the sound is part of the deal. I find i/c far more convenient as well due to the short prep time at home. If i get a call saying 'weather better than expected, heading up the field in an hour' i can quickly slap the rx and tx on charge to top them up, grab all my gear and head out. If i flew electric it would take me half a day to charge my batteries...unless i did it on the field? but then i need a big leisure battery or a generator. lipo fires also scare the life out of me and fire is another reason i am not a huge petrol fan either. 

 

Beyond all that i just like running engines. Each has a personality, and i enjoy the mechanical aspect of the whole thing  as well. Reliability is not a concern either and i have not suffered an unexplained dead stick in over 15 years, and the 4 or 5 i have had (most partial failure by loosing a cylinder on a twin) were all down to fuel starvation do to detached clunk or some such issue. 

 

I also dont think there is that much stuff you need for i/c. Certainly no more than for electric. A manual fuel pump, a glow stick and a lipo powered starter would easily cover the basics. You could even abandon the electric starter and just chop a foot off the end of the nearest broom handle for hand starting. Ok you might need a rag and a spary bottle of soap for a little cleaning at the end of the day but even that is hardly exotic stuff. 

[Tom Gaskin 1]

Each to their own Paul!

 

Back on they day I used to fly both glow and petrol fuelled models, but since late last century I have been exclusively electric. I have even converted my ic models to electric - the largest being an Flair Swallow that originally had a 120 four stroke in it. The largest lipo that I use is 5 cell 4000 mAH, and I just series/parallel these to get to the voltage and capacity that is required.

 

I also have 3 & 4 cell 4000 packs so I can get any voltage necessary.

 

Tom

[PeterF]

1 hour ago, Denis Watkins said:

 

The barmy thing is that methanol Paul, is a Waste Product, in many distillation processes, and manufacturers have to pay to get rid of it.

It should be Free ! ! !

Perhaps " Waste Product " is a bit strong, but Methanol is definitely a bi-product, secondary, in many processes.

There may be small quantities of byproduct methanol but these are small compared to the global market. The vast majority of methanol is produced in very large petrochemical plants from natural gas with a single plant producing between 2,000 and 6,000 tonnes per day of refined methanol. As the feedstock is natural gas methanol is far from cheap. Before retiring I worked for a company designing methanol production plants.

[PeterF]

Like many have said there is no fixed answer to this and if you joined a club you would see a lot more different types of models and equipment.

I now fly exclusively electric and have 2m wingspan 30cc equivalent electric power models. A couple of our club members have 50cc equivalent electric power models. I am happy with it but there is the odd model that I do miss the ambience of the IC noise.

[Ron Gray]

1 hour ago, Frank Skilbeck said:

so do I spend £150+

You don’t need to Frank, CNHL at circa £50. I’ve got quite a few of these and they are excellent batteries.

[John Lee]

1 hour ago, Frank Skilbeck said:

My 82" wingspan Mick Reeves Hurricane runs on 5000 mah 6s lipos, flies well, but now 2 out of my 3 5000 mah 6s lipos are not delivering adequate performance, so do I spend £150+ on a couple of new lipos or change it to IC.

 

No need to spend that much if you shop around & snap up offers. I bought 3 5000mAh 6S 70c from China Hobby Line UK warehouse last week for £110.94 delivered (£36.98 each). Ordered Thursday delivered Saturday.

 

 

Noise constraints at my local field mean that IC is not an option, though having converted to electric 10+ years ago I much prefer it. Each to their own but electric is viable on any size aircraft.

 

ps Crossed with Ron!

Edited July 26, 2023 by John Lee
PS added

[Chris Walby]

I have an odd medical condition that manifests itself with the side effect of purchasing mostly twin powered models although I have acquired EDF's and some odd things with only one prop attached!

 

Nothing quire like a nice circuit with a descending low pass  through the flight line and although electric is ok and 3 or 4  bladed props can sound nice its not quite the same as 4 stroke IC engine IMO 🙂 

 

There have been other threads discussing the merits of electric/ic and the fuzzy cross over point (that's slowly moving towards larger models) and for me there is the continuing bad press of the model plane killing twins. Compared with the number of single motor/engine models that bite the dust, twins are in the minority.

 

Jon gave me some general advice and it works well for me "Always fly with a plan B in mind" If something fails or packs up what's the plan to manage the situation for the best outcome and its just as applicable for twins.

 

Reliability is about quality of the product and preparation and I have had more electric twins have one quit than I have with IC. Plus more other component failures or dumb thumbs resulting in the use of the black bin liner!

 

PS Some models are more tolerant if one quits and Peter Millers Grumpy Tiger Cub is well known for its ability to fly on one motor/engine. 

 

 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Thanks for the address John, I have never heard of CNHL, I have just spent 41€ on a 4s 5000 battery, to chock the life into my flame throwing, noisy oil spitting, vibrating, IC engines that make my warbirds come alive, the zzzzzzzzzzzz power is for my gliders' and drones, am I really droning on ?.

[Nigel R]

Rc life doesn't get better than a fast low pass on a twin with 2x 4 strokes.

 

Other forum users can have their own opinion 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

1 hour ago, Nigel R said:

Rc life doesn't get better than a fast low pass on a twin with 2x 4 strokes.

 

Other forum users can have their own opinion 

If you don't stop it, I will post a video of my Twin Saito .45s Beautifighter flight !😇