Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Let's face it - us aeromodellers are inveterate bodgers. We can't help it! Years and years of buying kits that don't quite go together, have the wrong bits, missing bits, or strange bits, have conditioned us to expect it to be wrong. Decades of working around the fact that the plan "isn't actually quite right,....", have made us inventive and ingenious. We even have stores of "handy bits and pieces" don't we - and we turn to these when we need to improvise some solution to the fact that the wing bolts as supplied, don't fit, have the wrong thread and are too short anyway! Where am I going with this you'll be thinking? Well I have been moved by an experience I have had today. I've bought a Thule cycle carrier to go on my car, its one of the type that attach to the tow-hitch. I need this type as I am not allowed to lift heavy weights etc and while this was expensive its light and its easy to get the bikes on and off it. It came in a large box, with all the bits and pieces and screws and instructions - just like an aeroplane kit really! And you know what? It went together perfectly and worked, exactly as specified, first time. I nearly cried! I can't remember the last time I took something in bits out of a box and put it together without having to supplement it with components from my store and a deal of my ingenuity! But this just,.....did it. Weird! Very disorientating - I'm not used to this. After a few prayers in honour of Swedish engineering I started thinking. OK, my cycle carrier was not cheap (around £300), but hey I've bought ARTFs at around that price that most definitely were not even remotely ready to do anything much - and certainly not fly! If £300 can buy me a beautifully engineered cycle carrier (a work of art honestly!) - why can't it buy me a basic ARTF with all the right bits in the box it that will go together as it says in the instructions? Could it really be our fault? Do we secretly like the bodging and so live with it? Is it the reality that we privately hold all other model aeroplane builders in total contempt, so we see no point in complaining, "if you want something doing properly, do it yourself". Is that our attitude? The more I think about that the more I see there might be something in this. How many times have you fixed something in a model kit and in doing so implemented a completely different solution than the original and then convinced yourself that "it was just as well that bit was missing/faultly/wrong, it was a rubbish idea anyway, it's far better now I've modified it". Come on, be honest - I bet most of you have thought that on more than one occasion! So, maybe we get the half-baked kits we deserve, and secretly want? But I can't help thinking, it was rather nice this afternoon when it all just "went together and worked"! But, having said that, there is a bit of me that thinks I might just get a little bit bored with that after a while - however, it would be nice now and then though! BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 20/01/2017 17:46:47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Sometimes I wonder if it's because we are buying 'toys' that we accept design and QC standards that would have us calling in Trading Standards in any other area of our lives. Or maybe it's because many of us grew up with Keilkraft, Frog, Veron etc. kits and know what a quality item a modern ARTF is in comparison even with the interesting Oriental design touches? Edited By Bob Cotsford on 20/01/2017 18:05:37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveyP Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I definitely don't get bored when flat pack things go together first time, especially when my daughter ordered 4 wardrobes, 2 chest of draws and 2 childrens toy boxes for ME to assemble, my Sil isn't practical . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Colman Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Whilst I'm happy to admit gaining some satisfaction from having to develop a fix for many of my models, I'm always reminded of the tag line from a Honda car ad many years ago which I happen to agree with. Simply stated it went something like this: "Isn't it great when things just work?" Steve. Edited By Steve Colman on 20/01/2017 18:22:41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 How true BEB My pet moan is people who contact me with simple problems. "How do I do this or that" A recent one was " The throttle cable comes out on the firewall but my four stroke throttle arm is outside the fuselage. How do I do it" Before we had the internet we used to look at the problem and work it out for our selves. Now they just DON'T THINK!! Just ask someone and they will never learn to solve their own problems. I dispair of modern modellers who will not spend a few minutes using their brains. Edited By Peter Miller on 20/01/2017 18:24:57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Wots a Brain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 BEB, I have only glanced at your missive. I have not cogitated this cerebral masterpiece. But I would point out that a cycle clamp ( very useful for hanging aircraft off the workshop wall) is an order (or two) of magnitude less complicated than a model aircraft. A slight amusement, I used to live, 200 meters from their UK Depot. For anything Thule, the man in the depot sorted you out with total authority. He was good. At point of sale you went to the motor factor 100 meters away, in 20 minutes. He did not do retail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Evans 3 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 A great number of years ago I was a senior advisor for a very well respected national training and development organisation and one of my specialities was the development of leadership skills . I use to run seminars and courses relating to leadership skills and practises . After the necessary introductions and outlines of the course I asked the delegates to consider the question of "What makes a good leader " something I had posed a hundred or so times before . The delegates were sent off into groups of four or five to consider this for about 20 mins. and to return with their findings written up on flip chart paper to present to the other groups . After about 5 mins . I was approached by a delegate from each group for guidance on how to tackle or respond to such a request .!!! They said there was no pre work or suggested reading or guidance on such an issue , and not being able to refer to such previous knowledge could not answer the question and what should they now do ? My simple and straight forward answer was to now think for themselves and not to rely on other peoples guidelines and procedures . This was so against the ethos of their organisation "no names or pack drills" , that a further addition to the course was " how to think for your self " ! ! including ideas on lateral thinking . I'm sure a number of you can recognise similar organisations and individuals .! ! ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillyg1 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Exactly my thoughts as well Peter. Facebook is full of people asking :- what engine do I use in this? propeller size, how do I do this.? anybody any idea how to.......... and so it goes on, if you read the instructions, or Google it , there's your answer 9 times out of 10. is it because we need to ask other people - so if it goes wrong we can blame him ??? after all we live in a blame/claim society, people just don't use there brain anymore ( slide rule / log tables ) easier to ask instead of trying to work it out for your self , which by the way is more gratifying. and before anybody has a go , I'm no genius, know it all, I just try and work it out for my self, or refer to the plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 But I accept we bodge. I am currently part of a pair teaching an elderly newbie. He was aghast at my treatment of the build of the fuselage of a hack. I hit it with a hammer to break a misplaced joint. Totally forgotten today when he viewed the covered fuselage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hooper Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 BEB, I suspect you're very close to the truth in your assertion that we're a bunch of happy bodgers and tinkerers. If I buy a self-build/flat-pack/ARTF item, and it doesn't need any of my creative input - well, then I feel definitely cheated! Not only that, but I regard the finished item with much less regard than if I'd had to 'improve' it in some way. Tim PS. AS for the bike rack; couldn't you have made one from scratch? Wouldn't have taken more than a month or two..... Edited By Tim Hooper on 20/01/2017 20:13:38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I believe the world in certain areas has , well, just changed. Manufacturing techniques are so precise, as long as the design is correct, everything just fits. No longer is your tow bar a imprecise fabrication, nor are the mounting points on your car, about right. To the extent that you a qualified engineer are not allowed to instal it, just in case your are a non competent numpty. The person who does it has some idea, the parts are correct in all aspects, it just fits, because the as built precision is very good.. About two years ago. hmm, may be longer I bought a Clouds model Me 163, more recently a Balsa cabin. Fw 190. The first had a laser cut crutch assembly the second all parts NC routered. Both fitted together with incredible precision. To the extent, that when i put PVA on the Cloud model parts, it now longer fitted. The glue film thickness and slight swelling from the adhesive wrecking the exact precision. However I have just purchased a HK Waco SRE, I am not yet convinced it has reached the standard that some have achieved as a matter of course. Perhaps nearer the truth I have been an inveterate bodger, as my skills , in addition to my patience have never been very good. Although I knew that there were many on the shop floor and into model making could achieve great things. Now as long as i am willing to pay, and the market is big enough, My purchase are every bit as good. Edited By Erfolg on 20/01/2017 20:36:10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 It's still only a bike clamp. Think in terms of the design and installation of the powerplant. Not much difference. Loads to bother about before the bitch flies. Edited By Donald Fry on 20/01/2017 20:45:28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 20, 2017 Author Share Posted January 20, 2017 Posted by Donald Fry on 20/01/2017 19:08:46: But I would point out that a cycle clamp is an order (or two) of magnitude less complicated than a model aircraft. This one isn't - believe me! Watch and enjoy,.... A splendid piece of engineering! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Interesting thread BEB. My take is that model kits are designed for people who like to build them and construct them in their own way. Whereas the bike rack is designed for people with lots of spare cash, who like dress up in Lycra for no logical reason, put illegal white flashing lights on the front of their machines and have to wear cameras on their heads (Unlike other well adjusted cycle riders). It's just a pity that most of this high quality technology isn't made in Britain (apart from Laser engines). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Brits are world leaders in bicycle technology and have been since the days of Sir Walter Raleigh John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 All this strapping velocipedes to the back of cars - wouldn't it just be easier to "get on yer bike"? Getting back on topic, I think you're right though BEB and (proper) modellers tend to be inveterate tinkerers - it's a standing joke in my family that whenever we go on holiday I'll always find something to fix - and a multitool is ever-present in my pocket...except the authorities don't seem to like me having it on my person when I fly - something more to do with stopping me from doing some mods to the Airbus rather than attempting any terrorist act, I believe! Edited By Martin Harris on 20/01/2017 23:08:02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Are we the bodgers? What about the people who supply the badly drawn plans, the poorly cut parts, the inadequate accessories, the wrong, missing or strange bits - surely they are the bodgers! We overcome the problems they sell us by using our wit, ingenuity and skill, so let's not write ourselves off with such a disparaging epithet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 But we are dreamers.. it takes a very long time in this game to ignore the adverts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 20/01/2017 21:07:20: Posted by Donald Fry on 20/01/2017 19:08:46: But I would point out that a cycle clamp is an order (or two) of magnitude less complicated than a model aircraft. This one isn't - believe me! Watch and enjoy,.... A splendid piece of engineering! BEB I bought a Pendle bolt on bracket that fits onto the tow hitch....simple and takes 2 seconds to put the arms on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin 216 Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 The world of work is driven by process and worthless work instructions- for example people in call centres reading from script. Its a shear delight to be able to tinker and fettle dodgy models/plans/etc., and be able to break free of the audit police and process. Are we bodgers no we are innovators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Posted by Kevin 216 on 21/01/2017 07:08:06: The world of work is driven by process and worthless work instructions- for example people in call centres reading from script. Its a shear delight to be able to tinker and fettle dodgy models/plans/etc., and be able to break free of the audit police and process. Are we bodgers no we are innovators. We are also the ones who have to solve the problems for the brain dead who can't think for themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Fledermaus Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 "If you're interested in model flying of any kind then drop in to say hello and ask any questions you may have. You'll get a warm welcome" The quote above is from the Welcome note on this Forum. After reading some of the comments on this particular post, I'm beginning many will be put off asking questions, myself included, in case we are judged as not being capable thinking for ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn44 Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Good thread. It's helps me see into the brains of you "proper" modellers. Speaking for my self I do as you do, look find info, pick one suggestion out, and do it. I am guilty of asking perceived dumb questions on here, because you get so many good replies, and surely that's part of the reason we have and love the chat here isn't it? BUT I still think if I pay out good money, you guys know how much, then I think it's not unreasonable to expect the kit to be a kit that fits together, with all parts included. This is especially true if the model has been out for sale for some time. Buts that's just me, I will bodge, but prefer not to do so with a kit. I'm building a rc boat, hundreds of separate pieces, no plan, just written step by step instruction,(with diagrams) To say the least, it's hard! I really miss a plan to peruse, sort out orientations etc. We're always up for a challenge though, us builders, aren't we. It's my winter build, reckon it might take two of them! Oh and it's ABS plastic, trust me balsa is so much easier! Regards, Glyn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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