Speed limits in Wales

[FlyinFlynn]

8 hours ago, ron evans said:

Looks like it will take while to be sorted and settle down, and I don't think anyone could be done for speeding until proper signs are in place.

 

Looking through the window at passing traffic, sadly hardly any drivers are doing 20.

I would say that is par for the course. I live in a 30kph stretch of road and would estimate the drop to 30 from 50 made sod all difference, the drivers and motorcyclists that used to do (an estimated) 70 down the road still do 70 and those that used to do 20 still do 20. It is almost as though there is a total inability to regulate speed according to the limits in place.

[MattyB]

If people believe that a) the new limit is pointless/over the top, and b) there is no chance of enforcement, they won’t change their behaviour. Just human nature I’m afraid. 

Edited October 1, 2023 by MattyB

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I don't live in Wales so I don't know the true extent to the 20mph limits, from what I've read it's a default position and roads can be left at 30mph.

Plenty 20mph zones in Donny, can't say that they bother me personally, who's taking my "freedoms" away ? I blame the clowns that feel rules don't apply to them and force councils into building speed bumps and chicanes.

Modern motorist baffles me, why they need small lorries to go about their daily lives ?

Light a cigarette you're a health hazard to others, belch out toxic fumes, it's a god given right.

[J D 8]

   Drat and Double drat, got me a ticket for 35 in a thirty.

First motoring offence in fifty three years of driving/riding.[ still have just paper slip] What's more it was in my old Land Rover Ninety. Thought I would have been ok as had spotted the van and checked speedo. However tests with my daughters modern car following shows my speedo under reads by 4/5mph.

   Have to do the speed awareness course, the fee/fine for which is one the highest in the country.

         I do not often drive out of my home county these day's my most regular "long" trip is the 32miles to the club flying field.

         Most annoying is having to drive to the next county to attend it, a round journey of 101 miles for me.

  Those of us who live in the county of Pembrokeshire feel we are second class citizens having to travel for most services [medical]these days.

 

[Zflyer]

If its any conciliation I got done 37 in a 40, on a bloody dual carriageway, crazy. £80 speed awareness via Zoom. 56 years of clean licence. Will be asking if it has to be declared next time I insure, bearing in mind any excuse to bump up a premium. 

[Ace]

9 minutes ago, Zflyer said:

I got done 37 in a 40

🤔

[Zflyer]

yep type 37 in a 30,  vision 10x5 lol

[MattyB]

3 hours ago, J D 8 said:

   Drat and Double drat, got me a ticket for 35 in a thirty.

First motoring offence in fifty three years of driving/riding.[ still have just paper slip] What's more it was in my old Land Rover Ninety. Thought I would have been ok as had spotted the van and checked speedo. However tests with my daughters modern car following shows my speedo under reads by 4/5mph.

   Have to do the speed awareness course, the fee/fine for which is one the highest in the country.

         I do not often drive out of my home county these day's my most regular "long" trip is the 32miles to the club flying field.

         Most annoying is having to drive to the next county to attend it, a round journey of 101 miles for me.

  Those of us who live in the county of Pembrokeshire feel we are second class citizens having to travel for most services [medical]these days.

 

 

Could you not jsut do it online? My wife did hers that way, it's commonplace round here though they do ask a LOT of questions to make sure you haven't jsut nipped off for a coffee and left Zoom on!

[GrumpyGnome]

9 hours ago, Zflyer said:

If its any conciliation I got done 37 in a 40, on a bloody dual carriageway, crazy. £80 speed awareness via Zoom. 56 years of clean licence. Will be asking if it has to be declared next time I insure, bearing in mind any excuse to bump up a premium. 

AFAIK, s, you have to declare it. My premium went up by about 10%.

[MattyB]

10 hours ago, Zflyer said:

If its any conciliation I got done 37 in a 40, on a bloody dual carriageway, crazy. £80 speed awareness via Zoom. 56 years of clean licence. Will be asking if it has to be declared next time I insure, bearing in mind any excuse to bump up a premium. 

 

1 hour ago, GrumpyGnome said:

AFAIK, you have to declare it. My premium went up by about 10%.

Apparently you don’t have to proactively declare it, but if they ask explicitly you have to provide the details…

 

“Do I need to tell my insurer that I've taken a speed awareness course?

 

Not unless they ask you. There’s inconsistency between insurers - some might ask if you’ve taken a speed awareness course, others might not. 

If they ask, or you mention it, the insurer might increase your insurance price. If they ask, you have to tell them. Otherwise your insurance might be invalid.

But a speed awareness course isn’t a driving conviction, and according to The National Driver Offender Retraining Scheme (NDORS) it shouldn’t be treated as one. 

According to NDORS, you only have to give your insurer the information it asks for. This is thanks to a rule change in 2013. Before this, you’d have to volunteer any information that could be relevant to your policy. 

When you get a quote with Confused.com don't ask if you've taken a speed awareness course. We only ask about driving convictions.”

 

https://www.confused.com/car-insurance/guides/speed-awareness-courses

[Ron Gray]

Unless they ask, you do not have to declare that you have been on a speed awareness course.

 

I also got caught a few weeks back and did the course via Zoom, cheaper than paying the fine and no points.

[Tim Kearsley]

Of course, there's a foolproof, really simple way of avoiding these penalties.....

[Don Fry]

Yea, right Tim. Some time back I’m returning home from the UK, via Roscoff, and first leg, travel along the Brittany peninsula, to get on the A10 south.

So it’s a 90 kph duel carriageway.

I have a sat nav so know my velocity. I have cruise control so I can set my speed.  I know, as in the UK you get a 10% leeway, ( speedo error, Construction and Use regulations only spec 10% either way to comply). I know in France there is an additional 2 kph leeway. 
Got the maths wrong in my head as I sailed along, set the cruise control 3 kph above all the add ons, and proceeded to sail through 3 cameras in 65 minutes. 
only good thing, small amounts only get point per offence. Still cost though. At least the government say thank you as you pay here.

[Shaun Walsh]

6 minutes ago, Don Fry said:

Yea, right Tim. Some time back I’m returning home from the UK, via Roscoff, and first leg, travel along the Brittany peninsula, to get on the A10 south.

So it’s a 90 kph duel carriageway.

I have a sat nav so know my velocity. I have cruise control so I can set my speed.  I know, as in the UK you get a 10% leeway, ( speedo error, Construction and Use regulations only spec 10% either way to comply). I know in France there is an additional 2 kph leeway. 
Got the maths wrong in my head as I sailed along, set the cruise control 3 kph above all the add ons, and proceeded to sail through 3 cameras in 65 minutes. 
only good thing, small amounts only get point per offence. Still cost though. At least the government say thank you as you pay here.

Early form of duel carriageway:

[J D 8]

12 hours ago, MattyB said:

 

Could you not jsut do it online? My wife did hers that way, it's commonplace round here though they do ask a LOT of questions to make sure you haven't jsut nipped off for a coffee and left Zoom on!

  Afraid not Matty, living in a lovely area at the edge of the world [ Pembrokeshire coast, been here all my life] has its issues like poor internet and zero mobile signal. John.

[Frank Skilbeck]

JD, you could have checked your cars speedo against a GPS, probably more accurate than following another car. Google Maps on an android phone shows your speed, I also have an old Garmin Sat Nav that does the same.

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

4 hours ago, Don Fry said:

I know, as in the UK you get a 10% leeway, ( speedo error, Construction and Use regulations only spec 10% either way to comply). I know in France there is an additional 2 kph leeway. 
 

Don't assume you get a 10% leeway in the UK, that is very much the discretion of the particular Police force and not all give it.

[Don Fry]

28 minutes ago, Andy Symons - BMFA said:

Don't assume you get a 10% leeway in the UK, that is very much the discretion of the particular Police force and not all give it.

A Speedo needs to be within +/- 10% to comply with Contruction and Use regulations. So cameras are set at 33 mph. Not to do so would open the fus up to a defence, “my Speedo reads slow”, and to prove it the fus would need to seize the car to check its Speedo calibration, to refute the claim, what they can’t do, so you get 10%.
And more if generous. Just don’t assume generosity. 

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

5 minutes ago, Don Fry said:

A Speedo needs to be within +/- 10% to comply with Contruction and Use regulations. So cameras are set at 33 mph. Not to do so would open the fus up to a defence, “my Speedo reads slow”, and to prove it the fus would need to seize the car to check its Speedo calibration, to refute the claim, what they can’t do, so you get 10%.
And more if generous. Just don’t assume generosity. 

Cameras are not necessarily set to 33mph, that is the discretion of the police force (most do) however I picked up a speeding ticket a few years ago at 32 mph in a 30.

[Tim Kearsley]

3 hours ago, J D 8 said:

  Afraid not Matty, living in a lovely area at the edge of the world [ Pembrokeshire coast, been here all my life] has its issues like poor internet and zero mobile signal. John.

Cor, lucky man JD, lovely!

[John Lee]

45 minutes ago, Don Fry said:

A Speedo needs to be within +/- 10% to comply with Contruction and Use regulations. 

 

That is not true. It's not +/-, just +

 

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 Schedule 3 Section 19 requires:

 

2.  For all true speeds up to the design speed of the vehicle, the true speed shall not exceed the indicated speed. (my emphasis)

3.  For all true speeds of between 25 mph and 70 mph (or the maximum speed if lower), the difference between the indicated speed and the true speed shall not exceed—

V/10 + 6.25 mph where V = the true speed of the vehicle in mph.

 

ie at a true 30mph the speedo must read not less than 30mph & not above 39.25mph (30+[30/10+6.25]) 

 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I recall reading in our local paper that our town's speed cameras were set to trigger at any speed over 30 on the direction of the Chief Constable.  This despite the original camera recommendations being plus 10% and 4 mph and the answer given was that trigger speeds were purely at the discretion of the local police authority.

 

I would have thought that the driver is always legally responsible for their speed with no excuses being accepted - the offence is exceeding the limit, not deliberately doing so.  Whether you could sue a car maker for being complicit in your misfortune would probably depend on having very deep pockets and still wouldn't get the points annulled.

 

I always understood that car makers could be penalised financially for producing cars with under reading speedos therefore they habitually aimed at speedos reading towards the 10% high end  Win/win really, drivers got bragging rights about their speeds and nobody would be likely to raise a complaint because they got an unnecessary ticket.

[Don Fry]

7 minutes ago, John Lee said:

 

That is not true. It's not +/-, just +

 

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 Schedule 3 Section 19 requires:

 

2.  For all true speeds up to the design speed of the vehicle, the true speed shall not exceed the indicated speed. (my emphasis)

3.  For all true speeds of between 25 mph and 70 mph (or the maximum speed if lower), the difference between the indicated speed and the true speed shall not exceed—

V/10 + 6.25 mph where V = the true speed of the vehicle in mph.

 

ie at a true 30mph the speedo must read not less than 30mph & not above 39.25mph (30+[30/10+6.25]) 

 

Stand corrected, regs have changed since I needed to bother with them.

[J D 8]

 Hi Frank, The speed was checked by my daughter following in her modern car with GPS sat nav and digital read out. 

I do not have an android phone just a basic one for when out and about as most of my time is spent at home where the mobile signal is zero.

  Many people who work for things like bank's, electric companies ect just do not believe one has no mobile signal.

Conversation goes " You have a mobile?"  Me. Yes, but no signal.  "I will send you a code" Me I have no signal. "OH, Give me your mobile number and I will send you a code and you will have five minuets to get into signal and send me the code" The conversation then goes on to how long/far I have to drive to get a signal.

  Will have to get something as at 20 Landy's speedo is even more rubbish, needle just jitters up and down. Its a 33 year old mechanical unit the design of which goes back eons.

         

[John Lee]

As your tyres wear down their radius decreases & your speedo will increasingly under read your true speed, giving a little bit more margin for error.

 

What you need to be really careful of is replacing tyres with anything other than those which fully comply with the manufacturer's specification. Fitting tyres with increased sidewalls (eg to improve ride comfort as sometimes recommended by 'none official' sources) will give an increased radius & circumference, so your speedo will under read and leave you vulnerable to inadvertently exceeding the speed limit.