Hobbyking coming back to the UK

[Futura57]

9 minutes ago, kc said:

The point about VAT is important - it's surely what caused many local hobby shops to close.    We could buy at Hobbyking price  previously  but a local shop could not buy from Hobbyking etc and sell for the same price ( even for no profit ) because they would have to add 20percent VAT without having a VAT invoice to offset the VAT.   Sell in UK it would be 20 percent dearer at least.

 

We should insist on getting a VAT invoice with a VAT number on it if we are buying from UK source.  

 

 

Next time I employ a builder who offers me a discount if I pay cash, I guess I should ask for a VAT invoice to ensure he is passing 20% to HMRC 😆

[Geoff S]

10 minutes ago, Futura57 said:

Next time I employ a builder who offers me a discount if I pay cash, I guess I should ask for a VAT invoice to ensure he is passing 20% to HMRC 😆

Yes,

[Futura57]

16 minutes ago, Geoff S said:

Yes,

And get thumped. No thanks.

[GrumpyGnome]

For sale - model plane, £100

For sale - model plane + VAT receipt, £120

[Learner]

1 hour ago, Futura57 said:

Next time I employ a builder who offers me a discount if I pay cash, I guess I should ask for a VAT invoice to ensure he is passing 20% to HMRC 😆

A builder offering a customer a discount for cash is a fool!

He's not paying the vat the customer is

He's taking the risk of being investigated for what to save the customer a few quid makes no sense. 

[Outrunner]

10 minutes ago, Learner said:

A builder offering a customer a discount for cash is a fool!

He's not paying the vat the customer is

He's taking the risk of being investigated for what to save the customer a few quid makes no sense. 

 

The builder might be more interested in not paying income tax and national insurance....

[Philip Lewis 3]

6 minutes ago, Learner said:

A builder offering a customer a discount for cash is a fool!

He's not paying the vat the customer is

He's taking the risk of being investigated for what to save the customer a few quid makes no sense. 

Poor analogy, the builder who makes such an offer might well be avoiding VAT but most sole trader builders wouldn't be registered for VAT anyway, (turnover needs to exceed £85,000) but if that was the case he's hardly likely to declare it for income tax either, especially as that would really raise a big red flag, HMRC and Customs and Excise do talk to each other.

 

It's really the income tax he would be avoiding by simply not declaring the earnings at all, the invisible economy for you! 

[Learner]

8 minutes ago, Philip Lewis 3 said:

Poor analogy, the builder who makes such an offer might well be avoiding VAT but most sole trader builders wouldn't be registered for VAT anyway, (turnover needs to exceed £85,000) but if that was the case he's hardly likely to declare it for income tax either, especially as that would really raise a big red flag, HMRC and Customs and Excise do talk to each other.

 

It's really the income tax he would be avoiding by simply not declaring the earnings at all, the invisible economy for 

What is he building if he's not turning over £85k, barbecues?

You can spend that on a kitchen.

Whats the point of avoiding a bit of income tax and then giving money away to the customer.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Learner

[SlopedSoarer]

I didn't intend to start a debate about VAT with my post.

Just to confirm there was no documents in the parcel containing the random LiPo instead of the Transmitter. Of course a checklist / delivery note would be too easy really. Established despatch procedures cast to the four winds !.

Just one other thing ... the LiPo was sent via Royal Mail. I thought LiPo batteries were prohibited via Royal Mail.

I have now raised a Paypal claim to be refunded instead of having Hobbyking store credit.

 

[SlopedSoarer]

From my limited understanding of VAT ... i believe H.K being non U.K. based would be liable for VAT immediately. e.g. no £85K threshold.

 

When i order stuff from Aliexpress, i often wonder how the VAT that is collected is returned to the U.K.

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by SlopedSoarer

[Kim Taylor]

All I can add is that the invoice related to my recent order clearly shows the prices as being 'including tax' and the correct amount for a VAT element is shown separately at the bottom, as required by law in this country, I believe.

There is NO question in my mind that there is any kind of skulduggery going on, my guess is that the UK address is some kind of bonded warehouse, where the necessary systems are in place to pay the taxes due on the items as they pass through.

Kim

Edited December 6, 2023 by Kim Taylor

[Erfolg]

You are correct Slope Soarer, the Vat is a bit of a hobby horse for some, often suggested as the reason behind the demise of the LMS.

 

In reality LMS were starting to reduce in number way back in the 80s, well before the arrival of HK or Giant Cod.

 

Some 30 years back, I knew and had conversations with two MS proprietors. They complained that it was the utilities that dominated their costs, plus the retail waste collection, in additionto water and sewage, for a tap and sink, by the water company, last possibly not a minor charge,  post office wanting a fee for music (although no radio). Then came the rates, right at the end of the discussion came the rent, in both cases.

 

At the time one of my then friends said it is the HS operating out of wrinkly tin sheds, where the local council waved business rates and rental charges for a period, that undermined the high street retailers

 

One also added in one discussion, that the margins on bits and pieces is what kept the till ticking over, that the number of (then) kits was nearer one a day. Now that ARTF models dominate  the bits and pieces cash cow died.

 

The major advantage that the HK warehouse had is that their is no middle man, in the conventional manner. The middle man being the Ripmax, Perkins etc. Most of the UK wholesalers need a Agent in countries such as China, to act as the forwarding body for their multi source goods. In the case of HK, they are located in Country, acting as the purchaser and clearing agent and retailer. HK business model in that sense is more efficient, in many areas. It is possible that the HK warehouses are just that, in that potentially all the orders and financial transactions take place in China.

 

Another feature of HK, like all UK major retailers, almost certainly obtain massive discounts from manufacturers, guaranteeing bulk purchases from them. Also just as our leading supermarkets, they will access successful products of competitors, then produce a facsimile. All complain of the practice, whilst keeping a straight face doing the same.

 

I cannot but notice that so many off shore retail sales are now Vat paid by arrangements with HMRC. The ones that come to mind are eBay, Amazon, Banggood, Alibaba. It would not surprise me that HK do the same, the UK warehouse just a despatch point.

 

HK are not the baddie, boggie man, that some like to believe.

 

IMO HK are a go to, now they are back.

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Erfolg

[john davidson 1]

Previously HK British Warehouse had a different address  on every order I received, whether this was to keep ahead of customs etc. or some other obscure reason I don't know but Chinese are sharp cookies

[Erfolg]

John, if you can see the differing addresses, so can HMRC. One positive aspect (dependant on your view point) HMRC are not behind the door when it comes to gathering tax, however tenuous the basis (business sections in the media, often write about the issue). 

 

There are possibly many reasons why there are many addresses. One could be that the warehouse is a purely forwarding premise, the alternative could be a small office, which deals with some administrative role. Although I guess there are alternative and valid reasons.

[kc]

A VAT invoice should show the VAT number of the company charging VAT.   If it does not have the VAT number it cannot be a proper VAT invoice. 

 

 

It's worth remembering that VAT started in UK in 1973 as a requirement of joining the European Economic Community.   VAT was 10 percent then and replaced Purchase Tax which was only on luxury goods like cameras, cars and caravans etc.  ( I think Purchase Tax on cameras was about 30 percent but varied at the Budget sometimes)  Now Brexit should mean we don't need to have VAT if we don't want it!    

 

 

[Erfolg]

All of my purchases that appear to have come from China, from eBay and Amazon have been invoiced via the those companies, if there are Vat numbers they pass me by.

 

If any of these businesses are not paying Vat, HMRC would be there, faster than a rat going up a drain pipe. In the same way, I have not bothered looking for a Vat number from HK, again I am more than confident that the HMRC would be hot pursuit, if they even half believed that due Vat was due, and had not been paid.

 

 

[Don Fry]

On 06/12/2023 at 16:49, john davidson 1 said:

Previously HK British Warehouse had a different address  on every order I received, whether this was to keep ahead of customs etc. or some other obscure reason I don't know but Chinese are sharp cookies

Yea, but while we are verging towards racism, the owner of HK is an Aussie, and we are aware they breed to kangaroos. 

[RottenRow]

2 hours ago, kc said:

A VAT invoice should show the VAT number of the company charging VAT.   If it does not have the VAT number it cannot be a proper VAT invoice.

A VAT invoice is only required by law if both the supplier and customer are VAT registered (ie generally business to business transactions). In this case the supplier VAT number must be shown.

 

Retail sales might have a more simple invoice with VAT inclusive prices, although the VAT number might still be included somewhere. When you buy something from a retail shop you usually get a receipt, not an invoice. These usually show tax inclusive prices.

If you look up an item on HobbyKing that is available both from the UK and Global warehouses, the prices at the UK warehouse are exactly 20% higher than at the Global warehouse, due to the 20% VAT. The price also states ‘including tax’.

 

Brian.

[i12fly]

4 hours ago, kc said:

A VAT invoice should show the VAT number of the company charging VAT.   If it does not have the VAT number it cannot be a proper VAT invoice. 

 

 

It's worth remembering that VAT started in UK in 1973 as a requirement of joining the European Economic Community.   VAT was 10 percent then and replaced Purchase Tax which was only on luxury goods like cameras, cars and caravans etc.  ( I think Purchase Tax on cameras was about 30 percent but varied at the Budget sometimes)  Now Brexit should mean we don't need to have VAT if we don't want it!    

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but Purchase tax seems the most efficient way to pay/collect the tax. The tax is only paid by the end user via the shop, whereas with VAT every agent/ intermediary has to pay VAT on the sale and claim back the VAT on what he's paid for it from the manufacturer/agent/dealer, i.e. double the administration/overhead for the company and more civil servants to check it at each stage. Bonkers admin?

[Geoff S]

VAT varied at one time depending on whether the item was classed as luxury or essential and mundane.  I used to buy things for my racing dinghies from a lovely bloke in Derby up an entry on Normanton Rd. If I was buying some sort of rope either for sheets or control lines, Ken would ask me what it was for because if I said it was for clothes lines, the VAT was, IIRC, about half of what it would be if it was our dinghy.  I bought a lot of clothes lines 🙂

 

Purchase tax was a nightmare, too.  We used to sell thermionic valve as used in radios and TVs (we usually fitted them) and the price was printed on the boxes by the manufacturer (Ediswan or Mullard/Philips) and shown with the message 'plus purchase tax', which was adjusted from time to time in the budget.  Car spares were purchase tax-free (or reduced, perhaps. I can't recall) but parts to build a kit car attracted heavy taxes.  Lotus 7 kits were supplied without instructions so they could be sold as spares and thus attract a lower tax.

 

Taxation is complicated because life and the people who live them are complicated and what seems straightforward can often catch out innocents who fall between the cracks.  But tax is vital or public services society relies on disappear.

[Erfolg]

Perhaps all taxes should be much higher, for all and everything, no exceptions, then we would all value our services. We could also have extra services if we paid more.

 

Hmmm, perhaps it would not be sensible to work or run a business.

 

I was going to say that I remember that in ancient times monarchs used to keep their empires going from taxes, that their Lords and Governors would hold their lands and terrorties from the implementation and collection of the monarchs taxes, even republics had them, dictatorships, and democracies. They are nothing new then, although there have many rebellions when taxes are seen as to high or unjust etc. In other cases business activities decline, tax evasion becomes more frequent. But even I am not as old as Methuselah. 

 

In the case of HK, I would be surprised they are not paying the taxes due. Their lower cost per item just being a better business model, a wide range of keenly priced  products obtained by good negotiation and location etc.

 

Oh high tax does not automatically mean good service, we could not get a dustbin for my mother-in-law, being told that waste collection is not a high priority service.

 

 

[leccyflyer]

Still no sign of any small lipos being in stock in the UK warehouse, I'm looking for 2s1p 800mah and 3s1p 600mah packs, but finding them at the moment is a bit challenging, other than by paying top dollar and high shipping costs.

[Andy Shailer]

Hi All, I went to order Life4 batteries and still on Back order, anyone ordered them and actually received them.

Many Thanks

[Applewood]

Does anyone know where the UK warehouse is now located?   I'm sure there were rumours it was now in the North West?   The reason for asking, I remember they had a local collection option which people have used if they are local/passing the store.

[dave parnham]

i bit the bullet and brought a couple of 6S batteries that were half the price of everywhere id looked £105 for two 6s 5200mha 

Anyhoo they arrived DPD in two days as they said they were in stock in UK.

Interestingly the emails for tracking said your 51Cargo package is in transit.............Thats a Manchester based Warehouse.