So called " Driving aids" on new cars , help or hinderence ?

[Engine Doctor]

Please dont let this degrade into argument like the EV debate. 

What do you all think of so called modern driving aids ? Are they a benefit or do they dumb down your driving skills ?

My wife recently bought a new car . She ordered all the add ons that she wanted but there are so many so called driving aids that have been forced upon us and we dont have a choice . Some of the "aids" are just annoying but some in my view are dangerous. 

Annoying = Speed warnings bell/alarm , lane assist , stop start an anoyance when parking or manouvering and now since a few days ago  ( fortunately not on her car ) auto speed limiters.

Dangerous= Collision Avoidance   and Oversensetive auto braking .

The collision avoidance initially looks a good idea however while I was driving the car it picked up a high kerb on my left and powerfully jerked the steering to the right almost into the path of an oncoming car ! Fortunately I was able to hold my course with out collision bur it was close.

Auto braking. Im sure we have all experienced the driver who puts brakes on for no apparent reason but while driving on motorway or dual carriageways the inbuilt radar picks up cars some distance ahead and really applies the brakes ! Ok some say, but we have also all experienced the tail gaters who could back end you in this scenario .

Yes these aids can be temporarily turned off until the next time you start the car but going through what feels like a pre flight check for Jumbo jet becomes a little annoying.

What do you all think of these " safety aids" good ideas or nany state interference that are stripping away our driving skills ?

 

Ive asked if when it goes in for its first service if these can be turned off/ dissabled. Usually just a press of a button while pluged into the appropriate diagnostic unit.  No answer as yet and i think it will be a No.

[Geoff S]

Back in the late 60s I attended a short night school class series delivered by a traffic policeman.  I remember his saying regarding 30mph speed limits that you're generally OK if you keep below 40mph!  How things change!  Nowadays I tend to keep to speed limits (though occasionally on a slight downhill I creep above 30) and I've never been a 'casual' driver (an attitude encouraged by being both a motor and pedal cyclist, when any accident can be more serious).  I'm not too sure about these extra aids.  I feel that the encourage a more lackadaisical attitude when what's needed is concentration at all times.

 

I'm not sure if it's just my age but since buying a car with an automatic transmission I've become a steadier driver.  However it certainly accelerates when needed and I still do that when overtaking as I feel the less time on the 'wrong' side of the road the better.  Will speed limiting 'aids' make overtaking more dangerous when a very brief and minor excursion over the limit can be safer?

 

I hate tailgaters!   Overtaking is best done from well back as I learned when driving the well-handling but somewhat under-powered 850cc Mini I 'married' back in 1967 🙂

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Some annoying, stop and start turning the engine off while stopping at a round about, also automatic braking, twice it has stopped the car while creeping up to the roundabout in the traffic flow, It didn't work when a VW stopped in the middle of the road at 80 klm/h for no reason ( the car just stopped and wouldn't start) quick reactions and a swerve avoided an accident, brake warning, on the way back from the model field on a slight left turn opposite the post office 9 out of 10 times. Now big brother is watching us, and the new speed aids, will turn out as automatic speeding tickets, and possibly a mail to your insurance company.

[Bob Burton]

Along with the "driving aids" the large touch screens in many modern cars worry me

 

Give me the basic information such as speed in front of me and real switches to activate anything that I need whilst on the move

[Allan Bennett]

I'm lucky, my car is a 2019 model so 'lane assist' and 'auto engine stop' and 'auto handbrake' can be turned off.  I keep lane assist on, but I find that engine stop and auto handbrake both make for very jerky manoeuvering when trying to park, so leave them turned off.  I don't think I can turn off 'imminent collision warning' but, even though it's been activated by parked cars and cars waiting to join my road at an oblique angle, thankfully it doesn't seem to apply brakes, though I believe from the brochure it would add to my pressure if I did tough the brake while it's triggered.

 

Overall I'm not too impress by all these features.

[Philip Lewis 3]

I think quite a lot depends on the car manufacturer, I've got an ex Audi demonstrator with every conceivable extra and all can be set as early medium or late warning and that stays set, obviously they can also be turned off completely, they work really well with the exception of the lane assist which down a country road picks up only the left hand side of the lane so will try to steer you down the middle, however that is turned off by a button on the end of the stalk not deep down in a some menu.

 

Start stop used to anoy me but not so much anymore as it fires up the engine when the car in front moves off and the all round camera's not allowing you to hit an object you can't see to either front rear or either side are a real blessing, I really like that.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Motors resemble smart phones, more gimmicks they have, the more some like them.

Been looking for one with a Gatling gun, ever since the LED blind other drivers, came on the scene.

[Martin Dance 1]

I suspect its the level or ferocity with which these aids operate really determine our attitude to them. I've just changed cars, from one EV to another, but that's another topic! On my previous car the lane keeping assist was quite ferocious and would pretty much take the steering wheel out of your hand, so it was turned off. On my new car the LKA is much gentler, so it stays switched on. Some aids do seem to require an act of faith. The adaptive cruise control will allow you to use it to crawl along in heavy stop start traffic, the vehicle ahead speeds up so do you, but do I entirely trust it to slow me down when the car ahead slows mmmm! maybe maybe not. The speed limit warnings seem a bit hit and miss as they seem to rely on an onboard camera seeing the limit and seeing the correct limit for the road your travelling on. Being pinged for exceeding a 20 mph  limit when the road you're on is a 40mph road is just plain annoying.

 

[Learner]

Not for me, and there getting worse every year, my next car purchase will be trying to find a car with as few as possible even if its 10+yrs old

[Colin Carpenter]

When all else fails -steer ! That’s what I was told 1971.  Never forgotten and implemented several times over the decades !😱😱👍😂😂

[Zflyer]

I think the best aid would be competence between the ears of drivers. 

Whulst we are keen to.pass candidates for our A test it seem to apply to driving test judging by my observation of some drivers. 

An 18yr old i know who recently passed his t3st and hasa car fitted with a black box for his insurance wants another car, reason his current one isnt fast enough!!

I know we were all young once, however roads werenot as congested and carz not as quick. Doesnt matter if the brake quicker observation is all.

[payneib]

I've only used start/stop with a manual - it requires the car in neutral and foot off the clutch to work, not sure why that's coming on whilst you're parking.

 

Lane assist seems ok, and I've heard a few people say they've been saved by auto braking.

 

One thing I thought I'd never use, but now really love is a gear indicator on a motorcycle. Really handy to have a quick glance at the dash when something/someone interrupts your flow.

 

Also as a biker, I absolutely love blind spot warnings on cars. Apparently the art of, "turning your head to look out of the window" is dieing out, so it's really nice to see a line of little yellow warnings pop up in wing mirrors (that are also very rarely used), as I'm filtering past traffic. 

 

Hopefully they'll come up with something soon that stops, "sudden acceleration syndrome" in automatics. The only thing I can think of is stricter application of age related medical disqualification. 

[John Lee]

3 hours ago, Martin Dance 1 said:

I suspect its the level or ferocity with which these aids operate really determine our attitude to them. I've just changed cars, from one EV to another, but that's another topic! On my previous car the lane keeping assist was quite ferocious and would pretty much take the steering wheel out of your hand, so it was turned off. On my new car the LKA is much gentler, so it stays switched on. 

 

I've just had the exact same experience, again both EV's. In my Kia I adopted a pre-driving set up that required four button presses before setting off. In my new Mazda I just drive.

[Trevor]

We have a new Kia EV9 and, as per the OP, it is inclined to beep and bong at you a bit. The irony is that, if you look down at the dash to work out what  the bonging is about, you then get bonged again for taking your eyes off the road! As I get more familiar with the car, this happens far less so the over speed warning is probably now just about on the credit side of being useful more than annoying - except, as others have said, when it gets the speed light limit wrong.

 

The smart cruise control is very good. It responds very well to traffic pulling out in front of me, adjusting its response depending on whether the intruder is accelerating or not. I’ve had no unwanted activation of emergency braking other than when squeezing this large car into our garage.

 

Lane keeping assist can give you an unwelcome nudge on country lanes but it’s never been intrusive enough for me to want to turn it off.

 

So, on balance, I think that most of these features take a bit of getting used to, but I don’t think any of them are going to be a long term annoyance.

 

And, of course, being electric, auto stop start, which I did find annoying, no longer applies 🙂

Edited July 14 by Trevor

[Bill Wood]

I find lane assist on my Skoda Kamiq is positively dangerous. When pulling out to pass a horse or cyclist the lane assist jerks the steering wheel back towards whatever I am passing. I know if indicate right then the assist is temporarily turned off but who signals when there's no other traffic around? I can disable lane assist by a minimum of 3 button pushes on 3 different steering wheel buttons to return to the same dash display that I was on, however it will default to on again each time I start the engine. That also applies to stop/start except to disable that is just one button on the centre console. Lane assist may be of use on dual carriageways or motorways if the driver is falling asleep! Also it's useless on wet roads that are reflecting the sunlight. I think it's all just to boost the NCAP rating.

[Phil Green]

7 hours ago, Engine Doctor said:

...Speed warnings bell/alarm , ...auto speed limiters.

 

Quite a few pals I've spoken to were unaware that as of July 7th all new EU cars have by law to be fitted with "intelligent speed assist" and whilst its not mandatory in the UK (yet) I cant see the manufacturers making one version of a cars electronics for the entire EU (including NI) and a different version for the much smaller UK market. 

In a  nutshell, the reason you have these is cos its now EU law, unfortunately  🙂

"Which?" recently reported:
During the course of testing the MG4 (a popular electric car from MG), we encountered a potentially significant issue relating to the car’s lane-assist system, which is designed to keep the car in lane.  Specifically, we noticed that:

the lane-assist system twice pulled the car onto the wrong side of the road
in another incident on a narrower country road, the lane-assist system steered the MG4 towards an oncoming vehicle

Edited July 14 by Phil Green

[Nigel Sharp]

If everyone drove correctly with observation and at the speed limit non of these devices would be needed. However history proves humans don't.

 

Im alright Jack not me I know better. There are human created accidents, speeding recklessly etc.

 

So the devices are legislated.

 

 

[Brian Cooper]

I love all the "toys" in modern cars.

They just get better and better. 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

2 hours ago, payneib said:

One thing I thought I'd never use, but now really love is a gear indicator on a motorcycle. Really handy to have a quick glance at the dash when something/someone interrupts your flow.

 

Not really a new feature though - this is my 1955 Triumph Terrier

 

  

 

 

 

[Zflyer]

I have to say if i leave the aid at home while i go shopping everythings fine!!!

[Geoff S]

1 hour ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

 

Not really a new feature though - this is my 1955 Triumph Terrier

 

  

 

 

 

 

Well, that'd help me when I changed up the BSA way 🙂   My 1965 Lightning swapped the gears to the left and made it up for up, which was OK until I 'forgot' when accelerating hard in 3rd and changed up to 2nd!  Fortunately, I realised in time before any damage!

 

Lovely 150cc Terrier. Someone's spent a few hours on the restoration. You?  I did search for 1953 98cc Excelsior Consorts a few weeks ago (my first bike) and found one on eBay advertised at £3000!  That's 100 times what I paid for mine in 1956!  I did a lot of miles on mine but, as it didn't have a speedometer (not required on <100cc bikes) I've no idea how many.

[Don Fry]

2 hours ago, Nigel Sharp said:

If everyone drove correctly with observation and at the speed limit non of these devices would be needed. However history proves humans don't.

 

Im alright Jack not me I know better. There are human created accidents, speeding recklessly etc.

 

So the devices are legislated.

 

 

Absolute correct.  Conversations, ‘how fast  were you going’. ‘What is the speed limit Officer.’

Abs brakes are good, simplifies braking. My instructor said, I buy your pints if you break the pedal. Stand on it. Merc found out people die, didn’t use use it,  and hit, and died what they were trying to miss. ABS not engaged. Hence a computer tries to detect a panicky touch on the pedal. Not a proper 100 kilos on it. 

Auto is good, reduces driver load, so you can sit there and look for the problem.

Another  instructor said relax, assume those about you are homicidal maniacs, and the stress of the unexpected goes away. And complaining about speed limit preventing devices. Hit a peasant. At 30mph, 10% chance of dying, at 40mph, 90% chance of dying. Not me, but a mate related, scrote complained about the size of the dent in his GT 1600 non turbo diesel, after sending a peasant to his final destination. Rant over. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

1 hour ago, Geoff S said:

Lovely 150cc Terrier. Someone's spent a few hours on the restoration. You? 

Everything but the chroming. Nickel plated a few bits myself though. 
 

Back on topic, emergency brake assist senses the speed of application to identify an appropriate situation. 

[Andy Gates]

For me, switch all the safety features / gimmicks off and make the driver concentrate in the first place.

You should not really be messing with your sat nav / phone / ICE while the car is moving anyway.

If it is wrong, pull off the road to sort it out.

 

Watch your sat navs when you go past motorway junctions, a lot of the time they can't work out what speed limit they should be working on so the screen blanks. What is the car going to do with this new limiter system then - stop?

Whose fault will any accident which occurs after such an event be?

 

ABS brakes I can understand having - definitely a safety feature.

Lane assist - why are you not looking where you are going?

Speed control systems - look at your speed readings on the screen in front of you. I was taught to glimps at your speed not to be hooked on it.

 

I drive a fair few miles, quite  a bit in London and the standard of driving is awful, I spend most of my time avoiding other idiots.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

It would be a good aid if they could block telephones, I got cut off 'again', by a man in a white van, jet ski on the trailer on a roundabout when I was on my Yamaha last night, and as I hooted him, he just ranted and waving his phone about that he was occupied !.